ITV Television coverage

[The Stig]

For us mortals with only terrestrial telly, how could ITV improve their coverage ? Is ITV the best option, ie broadcasting the races a week or whatever after the event. Might watch more footy that usual, but Sky Sports are silly money for the whole lot, no doubt they'd switch between channels so you couldn't see a whole season with just the one of their sports channels. Heard about motors TV, whats that then ??

[King Cleland]

I don't think it can, apart from the adverts, which it cannot do anything about!

[Mocko]

Och that's an easy question: 1 and a half hours minimum.

[John]

Only by making it longer - 1hr with 4 ad breaks (ie 3 during the programme and 1 before the next programme) means it must be about 50 minutes - and a lot of this is interviews so actual racing cant be that much.

But no real complaints. Except for lack of Charlie Cox!

[The Stig]

Should be grateful, especially for the Mondello Park round, that's one I couldn't get to. At least it's recorded so the best bits are
condensed and you certainly won't miss the action. Bit spooky that with a live Grand Prix you only get four overtaking manoevres in the entire two hours, and they all occur in in the middle of the retail opportunities.

[The Stig]

Charlie Cox, almost forgot to mention. Although Vicky BH is high quality and very knowledgeable. Would love ITV to take the plunge and do it all live.

[touringlegend]

It brings the BTCC to the masses so can't complain! Maybe a little redecoration in the graphics department wouldn't go a miss for this year. :)

[John]

I was watching Germany 2000 the other week and Im pretty sure there wasnt an ad break between the start of the race and the chequered flag as it was so action packed that every time they attempted to go to a break something else happened.

Might be mistaken but fairly sure this is the case - first time ever though!

[John]

Originally posted by The Stig
Charlie Cox, almost forgot to mention. Although Vicky BH is high quality and very knowledgeable. Would love ITV to take the plunge and do it all live.

Sure theres something else about VBH you forgot to mention!! ;)

[The Stig]

VBH live on ITV - doubt it!

[Ann]

I don't mind coverage not being live as I plan to be at the circuit when the action is happening! :D

The main benefit of watching the coverage is to see the action you missed as it was taking place somewhere you're not (and isn't that often the case?) So more of the actual racing as uninterrupted as possible please!

[John]

Reckon she should have a go at driving - one of the production teams should give her a one off drive (like Tiff in 2001). Seen her doing a few things including rallying and she wasnt that bad - for a female! ;) Just kidding :)

Then thered be extra coverage on 5th gear etc.

I was pretty sceptical of VBH when I heard she was taking over from CC and JW but I have to say I was impressed - dont see why she couldnt do it live - she just presents the programme and carries out interviews, not actually commentating on the races

[The Stig]

No doubt at all - she wouldn't disgrace herself in the "blokes" seat. Look at how well Annie Templeton competes with mediocre equipment seemingly. Have to say whoever summarises, is irrelevant, TV is cool for the bit you missed at the circuit or the meetings you can't get to.
VBH has always entertained me on 5th Gear and the old Top Gear.

[John]

Originally posted by The Stig
TV is cool for the bit you missed at the circuit or the meetings you can't get to.

and of course for refreshing your memory in the future when you re-watch the races

[The Stig]

much of my enjoyment is remembering or reminiscing.

[thommo_fan]

same here, i tape every btcc programme but i make sure i don't tape over the meetings i attended. so i re live what happened.

i'd like the programmes to be longer and i did miss charlie and watty in the commentary box this year but ben edwards, will hoy and chris goodwin still did a very good job, as did vb-h.

[Claw]

Just make it longer really.

It never really bothered me Cox not being there.

[John]

Also make sure sponsorship issues are sorted out at the start of the year so we dont have to bring back those stupid grey/black squares to block out the logos when in car!!

[touringlegend]

One of my biggest regrets is not getting the whole of the Knockhill '99 coverage on tape. I got up to just after the incident where Aiello pushed Plato off at Duffus, then it stopped. I shoulda checked how long the tape had left on it! :(

[John]

I made the mistake of asking my parents to record the first Oulten Pk rounds in 99 cos I was out and got back to find they'd put them over the top of the tape rather than at the end - so I lost all the races upto there! Gutted! :mad:

[tvgod]

There's a rumour that VBH is going to race in selected rounds of the Clio Cup. She won't be allowed to race a touring car though because she only has a National A licence - although that could change if she gets enough Clio miles in.

[Mocko]

Heck, put it on Monday after or on the Sunday of the race. Why wait a week.

[John]

Monday showing would be good - but it depends when the programme is put together, commentary isnt done live so I assume its all put together during the week sometime to go out on the next weekend - wouldnt want the quality to suffer (ie currently they seem to use best camera angles and dont miss any of the action in what appears to be 'real time' (not replays) which was never the case during live transmissions in the past).

[King Cleland]

Monday would be very cool, but we wouldn;t want to disrupt constipation street would we? ;)

[thommo_fan]

in 2000 and 2001 when the btcc tv coverage was still on grandstand i would set my video for the time it said in the tv listings but then grandstand would move it back by an hour or something.
in the end i would set my video for an hour before it was meant to be starting and an hour after it was meant to finish just so i didn't miss it.

[John]

Yeah and be left with two hours of horse racing or something!! I have exactly the same on mine!!! :mad:

[V6.]

More use of in car cameras would be good, they are currently low quality, narrow field of vision cameras that only ever seem to be used during replays. I mean can anybody remeber hearing the joyful MG V6 for more that about 4 seconds while they are not crashing in a replay. Remember 95

[John]

In car cameras are used more than they could be (think F1!!) but yeah I like in car stuff.

Also more use of the helecopter we saw at Donington (dont know how much that costs to hire/run etc though).

[AussieV8]

Got a few things to go over.

1: The use of the in car camera is pretty poor when I'm used to seeing it all the time here (V8's)

2: Just finished watchin Donington Pk on Fox Sport and the use of the choper was great but like John said it must be expensive.

3: As for your lady commentator shez not bad. Put her in a Mazda RX8 for 2004.

[The Stig]

Like loads more pit to car radio transmissions, ie all of them.
Perhaps one leading team in rotation for each event in combo with a carcam. Loved that bit at Donny last year when Thommo was told Yvan Muller has just parked it, Thommo said to his engineer, "does this mean what I think it means...."
Engineer replies, "yes mate" - and then something like, "enjoy yourself and stay away from trouble" Thommo shakes his fist.

[AussieV8]

I remember John Clelland being for one of many Bathurst he did and he couldn't get over our drivers do commentry while racing.
His comment in the pits was let me out there and have a go but he was told No as no one would understand him.
Very funny bloke:D

[John]

Again watching the old reviews (1988/89 era) there are cars wired for sound and the drivers just ramble on while driving - an example, Mike Smith says something about having to get past this guy soon, I think I'll give him a tap to rimind him Im here! Stuff like that was funny!

[John]

On the onboard camera theme - the following is a quote from the back of the 1988 review video:

"...the recording was to be supplimented by sometimes as many as four onboard cameras among the front runners in the field..."


FOUR??!! WOW!!!!!! ;)

[King Cleland]

:D hilarious!

[Claw]

Yeah, I like those "Wired for sound" bits. '92 they stoped using them I think.

But have you noticed in modern times, no drivers ever shout incar or wave fists anymore!! :(
;)

[King Cleland]

apart from Boardman!

[John]

Originally posted by Claw
no drivers ever shout incar or wave fists anymore!! :(
;)

Or fingers!! (Yes John you are still second!!) ;)

[John]

There was a funny one in 1989 at silverstone when Jerry Mahony collides with a backmarker and ends up in gravel - the incar shows him shacking his fist and shouting 'Wally.... ****'n wally!!'

[V6.]

Originally posted by Claw
.......... or wave fists anymore!! :(
;)

Thats because in car cameras are now always to far forward to see the driver.

Does anyone know why the quality has deteriated. In for instance 98 you could see standard looking video cameras strapped to the roll cage behind the driver. They now seem to be digital like cameras that are either too close to the dashboard and very grainy or on the corner of the bonnet where they get covered in flies.

[Claw]

Originally posted by V6.
Thats because in car cameras are now always to far forward to see the driver.



No, but just generally over the last few years, they all seem to be very calm.
Drivers used to go mental when they got tapped or hit.
I remember Brands '92, Nissen pushed O'dor towards the pit wall and Keith went crazy.

[John]

maybe they were told to calm it a bit?? We need that back though! Start spreading rumours at the next pit walkabout that should get them going a bit! :p :p

[V6.]

I suppose we have lost the guys with the biggest egos and tempers.

Cleland
Plato
Menu
Winklehock (Spelling??)
Rydell (Brands 98)
Ha...Ravaglia
Balley
Other Italians

[Claw]

Yeah I suppose, cos the BTCC now is full of drivers who are just "pleased to be there!"

If you know what I mean.

With respect to todays drivers. :)

[John]

True - and there are fewer teams but more cars per team - and team mates are supposed to get on in this politically correct world!! (But as other threads discuss - thats not always the case!)

[McKay]

That "yes john, you're still second" thing, I wonder if Murray actually knew what he was doing and was covering up for kids, or he just thought that, he did that a few times with cleland and o'dor.
I want to know why in the 2002 BTCC video there is barely any footage of the GP loop at brands at the first meeting, the cars goign over dingle dell i missed because i missed the first meeting. ( I know thats not ITV's fault but what the hay!)
Also, why don't we get in car footage of Matt Neal or Charlie Coxes rolls in 94 and 95 when we do of tarquinis? Did the camears get destroyed or didn't they have cameras? That would be wicked.

[John]

Presume they didnt have cameras - as especially back then there werent cameras in all cars (see one of my posts further up about 1988) - Tarquini was a front runner whereas CC was a privateer and Matt was a midfiels works car. Thats my interpretation anyway

[Claw]

Originally posted by McKay
That "yes john, you're still second" thing, I wonder if Murray actually knew what he was doing and was covering up for kids, or he just thought that, he did that a few times with cleland and o'dor.

Also, why don't we get in car footage of Matt Neal or Charlie Coxes rolls in 94 and 95 when we do of tarquinis? Did the camears get destroyed or didn't they have cameras? That would be wicked.


Murray did that to cover up for kids, but I like the O'dor one.

"Your ahead, and i'm second to you says Keith O'Dor..!" :D

I don't think the cameras got destryed in those rolls, the cars may have not had any in them!

[tvgod]

Originally posted by V6.
Thats because in car cameras are now always to far forward to see the driver.

Does anyone know why the quality has deteriated. In for instance 98 you could see standard looking video cameras strapped to the roll cage behind the driver. They now seem to be digital like cameras that are either too close to the dashboard and very grainy or on the corner of the bonnet where they get covered in flies.

The cameras are still fixed to the roll cage behind the driver. You have to be very careful about the positioning of them these days - the closer they are to the wheels (i.e. to the suspension) the more likely they are to wobble and jump, so the company that supplies and operates them puts them as close to the centre of the car as possible.

They are always slightly off centre though, so that they don't obscure the driver's view in his rear mirror.

As for flies, the cameras fitted to the outside of the car have their lenses cleaned during pit stops.

It shows how far TV has come forward though that there are now cameras on 18 cars rather than just 4.

As for radio, having listened in to some drivers' radios last year, it's amazing how little they actually say...and when they do talk it's usually to swear.

[John]

The fact the cars are shorter wont make much difference will it? Just thinking out loud here but if they're in the middle of the car but the cabin area is smaller then they will be closer to the windscreen. Cant see it making a huge difference though?!

[AussieV8]

Hey guys you all have seen are cars (V8) and the camera positions.The camera tech teams are constantly working on new places to put them. Near the drivers feet to watch his/her footwork on the guards and my favourite in the head or tallights.
I know are cars are bigger but the cameras are getting smaller and the way they can swivel tehm around front all angles.

I remember back in 84 the commentary crossed to a driver (Tony Scott) driving one of the Nissans when a back marker go in his way and on live TV the comment was. "Get out of my way you f***ing idiot. The commentator said after that we should go to a break.

Live TV is great.:D

[John]

Originally posted by AussieV8
I remember back in 84 the commentary crossed to a driver (Tony Scott) driving one of the Nissans when a back marker go in his way and on live TV the comment was. "Get out of my way you f***ing idiot. The commentator said after that we should go to a break.

Live TV is great.:D

That explains why there was no radio feed on live BTCC event coverage!!

Worst I can think of was Silverstone 99 when they were chatting to Cleland during a safety car period about his drive through and he said 'that reallin p***ed me off'

[McKay]

How did they chat to him whilst he was in the car?
Were they walking alongside it (could it of been that slow) or was it an over the radio thing?

[AussieV8]

When a car is carrying a camera the commentary can talk to them and you can also watch the driver as they are speaking. At Bathurst they have even done a link up with the co-driver to the driver and its great banta. The helicopter follows the car in question and thats the link beaming the signal back to the pits or the commentary booth.

Well we were the ones to pattern Racecam back in 1977 with Peter Williamson Toyota Celica (under 2ltr car) at Bathurst and now help NASCARS to perfect it for there cars.:D

[John]

Originally posted by McKay
How did they chat to him whilst he was in the car?
Were they walking alongside it (could it of been that slow) or was it an over the radio thing?

It was done by the radio! :p

They could probably have done the walking along side thing with 97s Vectra but 99s was a bit faster!!

[cav1995]

97 Vectra....


..


Umm.. Nah I won't defend it.

[The Stig]

Does it honestly matter what is said by whom and in what circumstances ? BTCC is watched by BTCC fans on dedicated sports channels or specific BTCC programmes (itv presently). I can't think that anyone using this forum, even our good lady participants, would be offended by things said in the heat of a high pressure motor race. Honestly believe that bleeping stuff, because you can with edited highlights, isn't right. Would rather see one or two drivers blaspheming having chucked it off or been taken out than the TV companies bleeping their frustration. Anyway, most of the bleeps are about a half a second late so you can always guess the rest of the, "Fbleep" or "SHbleep" words, if you see what I mean.

[AussieV8]

Stig..

You have style....

[John]

I agree - but the word 'watershed' springs to mind!

[tvgod]

Sadly the regulators don't agree, and would not only impose heavy fines on the broadcasters involved, but probably force the programme off the air.

In addition, swearing does offend people - a single use of m***erf***** or c*** would cause nine out of ten people to switch off, while f*** would cause seven out of ten to switch off.

That's not going to please the advertisers or sponsors.

Remember that this is a programme which is broadcast at a time when there are a lot of children watching.


However, all this talk of swearing has inspired me - how about the drivers having to give GBP10 to charity every time they swear on the radio.

Over the course of a season, they would raise several thousand.

[John]

Or they get a point deducted from their total - instead of *s next to the score meaning 5points deducted for an engine change it could mean a point deducted for swearing - far more appropriate!! ;) eg Bennett **** (swore on camera 4 times over the allowed limit!!) :p

[Reynard]

Swearing needn't be out loud...

OK, this isn't an incident in the BTCC, but I have some in-car footage from the 2001 British GT round at Thruxton from the #53 Parr Motorsport Porsche driven by Kelvin Burt.

To cut a long story short, Kelvin gets irate with one of the Marcos Mantises that he is lapping and flicks a time-honoured gesture at the other driver.

Everyone knows what that particular gesture means, but it would be rather difficult to edit that out! :) It did make the C4 coverage (which I taped) but I can't remember anyone making a fuss about it...

[Claw]

I've seen that race (I was at Thruxton! ;) ) and
on TV and there were quite a few drivers making hand gestures.

[cav1995]

Is it such a big deal that drivers swear? I'm sorry but the idea for deducting points for it was absured. Do we not have freedom of speech in this country? Would Man U be deducted points every time Keane lost his Rag and swore at another player?

Leave it as it is. If it's live and a driver starts cursing then move to another car.

[John]

It wasnt a serious suggestion!

[Les]

that's a brilliant idea TVGod - we need ideas for raising money for charity....

but it wouldn't be very fair as who is going to listen and fine them??

[tvgod]

Get them all to record their radio transmissions onto tape (maybe ITV already does this?), then each driver swaps tapes with another driver and they listen to each other and count the swear words.

[Les]

I'm afraid Paul O'Neill and Phill Bennett had better bring their cheque books because they are terrible!! :rolleyes:

It might just ruin the tv coverage though - the odd bleep gives it character and emphasis (mind you so does a wave or fist!)

[AussieV8]

I have to agreed the odd slip up here and there makes it spicey.

You don't expect them to say move over please at 200k's (150mph) its just get out of the ****ing way.

Cav, your right if the driver is getting testy move to another or go to track cam or an add. Unfortunately it happens here quite a bit as the commentary team are always crossing to the driver for a chat. :D

[The Stig]

The Stig's back, evening all.
Had no intention of being contentious and had overlooked the fact that we have lots of young enthusiasts, which isn't a bad thing at all. My point is that you might forgive the occasional outburst. bleeped or otherwise, although some words are especially offensive. BTCC is a high pressure real word and emotion of that nature is lot less worse than say, football players spitting or brawling, which frequently happen.
The charity thing is possibly a bit daft though.

[AussieV8]

Kids say worse things these days than the odd bleep by a frustrated race driver.