Nissan (23)

[John]

I've wondered this for years but never been bothered to find out. Anyone know the significance of #23 and Nissan? They always have it when they arent eligable for a 1-10 number.

Or is it just that there is no underlying meaning, just that they had 23 last year so why not have it this year?!?

[Claw]

I think it was something to do with 23 being lucky in Japan or something.

[John]

Ah - which presumably is why Matt Neal always had 77 (as 7 is lucky here?)

[Sim_Da_BTCC_Man]

A- They were not in it last year
B- They are not in it this year

:confused: :confused:

[King Cleland]

Not sure, no direct link.

Why Proton have 15 & 2o, I remember it was because it had some link to Proton?

[Claw]

Sim - They were always number 23 in the past. O'Dor, Reid and Aiello were 23.

[John]

Originally posted by John
Or is it just that there is no underlying meaning, just that they had 23 last year so why not have it this year?!?

Not meant to be taken literally - meant as in any year. Eg apply that statement to 1999 or 1998 or 1997 or 1993 etc etc

[John]

The Proton link was important enough to forego Bennett's number 4 from 2001 season. So that must be pretty important somewhere

[Sim_Da_BTCC_Man]

Blimey those ginger moments are just pooring tonight :rolleyes: ;) :p

[John]

Long day?!

It must be a Nissan thing because it doesnt matter who ran them (RML, Janspeed etc) or which driver.

If its a Japanese thing then why have Honda not adopted it?

[Claw]

Maybe they should, they need some luck!

[Sim_Da_BTCC_Man]

proberbly a Jap thing but its become a tradition at Nissan or something. Its not a tradition at honda so the proberbly thought they won't bother. Plus theres honda UK backing.

[King Cleland]

Honda have got number 3 this year with Matthew neal :D

[John]

And hopefully number 1 next year with Neal again!

Morrison was 9th (I think) so he should be number 9, so what do you reckon... 39 for Chilton? or his number from Barwell - 17?

[Claw]

Chilton will probably be his finishing number from last year, but they can only fit 3 numbers on at maximum!! :D

[John]

More controvesy!! :p ;)

He wasnt last though - he beat Phil Bennett who had a different engine for every session!! And Carl Breeze who completed only part of the season ;)

but at least he got a positive score unlike the very unfortunate Hyla Breese! :mad:

I'll shut up about Chilton now - made the mistake of slagging him off to my mate at croft (while his parents and sister were standing behind us!!) So I've learnt my lesson now! Honest!! ;)

[Claw]

How do you know they were standing behind you? Did they start shouting at you? :p

[King Cleland]

I assume Chilton was 17 because he was 17 last year, maybe he will be 18 this year ;)

[John]

Cos they were all wearing Barwell gear - looked a bit like like him and spoke like him! And gave me a very dodgy look! Definately family! Oops! ;)

[King Cleland]

Chilton is rubbish though!

[John]

Thats what I was trying to explain to my mate! ;)

Didnt get how he was describribed as 'the wonder kid' by Ben Edwards for ages at the start of the season. :confused:

[King Cleland]

yer :rolleyes:

[John]

Podium finish yeah but only after Muller got a punture, Thompson blew up, O'Neill fell off, Harvey was pushed off.........

Slight on the other hand had some really good qualifying sessions in the sister car

[King Cleland]

I agree, I got banned for saying that him and O'Neill were disappointing!

[John]

I'll shut up then! He's not bad as such but I think there are many more deserving drivers and young drivers would be better off starting in the production cars - even if its only for a year like with O'Neill.

On the O'Neill issue - I have to say I think he's really impressed me with his driving and just his general attitude and deserves a drive on merit.

[Mocko]

Back to the 23 thing, I've noticed that on the Nissan Z car GT show car it has a number 23 on that. Also Nissan's 23 number stretches all the way back to O'Dor in '91.

[John]

Goes further than 91 - its on Win Percy's Nissan in 88 too

[John]

Think I've solved it - apparantly in Japanese "ni" is 2, and "san" is 3. So Nissan would be 23.

Dont know how true that is - so any Japanese speakers.....??

Seems reasonable though!

[King Cleland]

Will ask my friend, but that seems to be the solution I would have thought!

[McKay]

Numbers have always interested me, it must be a nissan tradition, it cant have anything to do with the nissan model like Alfa 155 (Tarquini No.55) because its a named car not a number name car.
Heres a list of numbers and stuff, might be useful,

Toyota 94,
5 Bailey
7 Hoy
57 Sugden
Renault 95 and 97
2 Menu
22Hoy (22 PLato (97))
Volvo 98 99
Rydell 4
Morbidelli 14
Rydell 1
Radermacker 11

Are numbers like some special thing in the BTCC? Can you not have a 1-10 number if you finshed in 11 or higher or didnt compete the previous season?

[John]

1 - 10 are for previous years positions so if you finish 5th you get #5. If you dont compete next year then the number isnt used - hence why there's not been a #1 since 99.

Other than that any number can be used - 11to99. More recently a number 50+ means Production and 111 has been used by Slight - as he had that on his WSB.

As for the reason behind Matt's #0........... not a clue!!

[Claw]

I dunno why Morbidelli had 14 on his car as Warwick finished 14th the previous season. He had number 88! Triple 888 team maybe?

But I think in the BTCC only the top 10 finishers from the previous season have the numbers on there cars corrisponding to there finishing position. Everyone else an have anything they want!

[John]

Think the whole thing about triple eight is that Cleland had #8 on his car in 97 (after finishing 8th in 96) and Warwick had #88 (obvious choice based on clelands #8) so the new team was called 888 - assume thats the reason.

As for Morbidelli - 14 is kinda similar to 4 which was rydells number.

If you finish 11th or lower you dont have to have the number relating to the previous season's position.

[McKay]

Except in 97,

Burt 11,
Harvey 12,
Watts 14,
Radisich 15,

Their 96 places

[King Cleland]

It is so that if you need a spare door, then there is only one number to add/replace.....

eg..

If Menu had a problem with his door in 1997 (Snetterton this is done) then they just take one from Plato's and take on of the 2's off, or add one depending on the case.

If you look at Menu's door in Snet 1997, then you will se that the 2 is off centre and the other 2 is covered up!

[Claw]

No, in 96 Watts only had 5 points and came about 17th and Radisich was 12th in 96 I think and Harvey 14th.

[King Cleland]

Originally posted by McKay
Except in 97,

Burt 11,
Harvey 12,
Watts 14,
Radisich 15,

Their 96 places

These are still chosen

[John]

Maybe they couldnt think of anything better. In 2000 Menu had #11 and Reid #12 which were there 1999 positions, but what were the other options? Rydell was #3 so they could have had #33 but there were 3 cars so that wouldnt have worked.

Not saying that they never have previous years positions outside the top ten, just they dont have to - and that other drivers can use 11 12 13 14 15 etc even if they didnt finish there (eg Muller was #12 in 98 but didnt even compete in 97 - Cleland finished in P12 in 97).

[John]

Yeah its true Watts was 16th in 96 - Kox was 14th in the BMW

BTW Kaye was 12th, Radisich 13th and Harvey 15th

[McKay]

What! I could of sworn... oh well... Kelvin Burt was right, must of been a weird website i was on.

[John]

What I've got (which I hope is right as its part of my new book!) is:

1996
.............
P10 Thompson (83pts)
P11 Burt (66)
P12 Kaye, J (33)
P13 Radisich (27)
P14 Kox (26)
P15 Harvey (20)
P16= Watts (6)
P16= Kaye, R (6)
etc....

[AussieV8]

Number thing and Nissan doesn't appear here. Looking back through my yearbooks none of the Nissans that raced here had 23 on them. The only coincident is when the previous year the cars finished 2nd and 3rd in the championship so there no's were 2 & 3. Even when Bathurst was 2ltr the Primera carried the number 34.
The only famous number has to be Brockys 05 which will reappear at the F1 in a support race. Brockie is drivin the 7ltr V8 Monaro that won at the Bathurst 24hr in the Nations Cup race.

What a car.........:D

[John]

Is that Primera you're on about the 98 race? That was a team dynamics entry, dont know how much input there was from Nissan (presumably still from NME even though it was racimng in Australia?)

Dont know how the Bathurst numbers work - wasnt Harvey's car #4 and Cleland/Warwick #8 ?

[McKay]

The f1 numbers work in an odd way, if you win the championship them move to another team you could get 9 or 22! I noticed they never use 13.

By the way, do you prefer those italic numbers (1995 - 2000) when Auto Trader were sponsoring or those bold block like numbers from before 95 and after 00 ?

[Claw]

Originally posted by McKay
By the way, do you prefer those italic numbers (1995 - 2000) when Auto Trader were sponsoring or those bold block like numbers from before 95 and after 00 ?


lol, I prefer the Italic Auto trader numbers.

[AussieV8]

John you know your motorsport you are right about Harvey and Clelands cars.
Nissan Oz backed the Primera just for the race as we don't sell that car here. Dynamics did still have the main sponsor of the car with NME. It was strange having Steve Richards in the Nissan and his father Jim in the Volvo on the front row and as for the Vectras one was a Holden Vectra and the other a Vauxhall.
(marketing for you):)

[John]

Originally posted by McKay
The f1 numbers work in an odd way, if you win the championship them move to another team you could get 9 or 22! I noticed they never use 13.

Number 1 gets taken to your new team - eg Ferarri in 96 or Arrows in 97 were #1 and #2

[AussieV8]

Same here if you win the championship the next year you wear the number 1 and then 2 goes to 2nd but thats were it stops.

[John]

Originally posted by AussieV8
John you know your motorsport you are right about Harvey and Clelands cars.
Nissan Oz backed the Primera just for the race as we don't sell that car here. Dynamics did still have the main sponsor of the car with NME. It was strange having Steve Richards in the Nissan and his father Jim in the Volvo on the front row and as for the Vectras one was a Holden Vectra and the other a Vauxhall.
(marketing for you):)

Yeah and in the commentary they were just referred to as 'Vectra' whereas everything else was Volvo, Nissan, Audi etc. No Opel Vectra though?! Marketing gap there!

That Vauxhall, Opel, Holden, GM thing always confused me - esp the Vauxhall vs Opel thing as the European cars are the same. But I figured out the reason when I did a marketing module at uni!

I assumed the Nissan must have had some input from Nissan as the car was still in the Nissan livery but with 100+ instead of Vodafone whereas you might have expected the full Dynamics Red if it was a wholly privateer effort (unless there wasnt time to repaint it?)

[AussieV8]

The Primera was white with 100+ on the bonnet and red & white on the sides.

[Claw]

The numbers in F1 are based around the team performance, not the drivers.

[John]

Heres a question - the Production numbers are all 50-99, but what if a driver finished in the top 10 in touring then goes to production the following year. If VLR enter the production championship rather than touring this season and Dan Eaves stays with the team then he should have #10 for finishing in P10 last year, but as it would be a production car it should be a number over 50.

On a similar note when Will Hoy took over the Arena Renault in 99 he kept the number 17 (which Spence had used) for starters this seemed strange to me as usually a driver would take a different number despite it being the same car (eg Tommy Erdos taking over from Luby) but also Will finished in the top 10 in 98 but didnt carry the #10 on the Renault - any idea why not?

[John]

Also what do you guys think about the blue backgrounded numbers used in 98-00 for the independent's?

I think they were a good idea and presumably helped people who didn't really follow the championship to know who was an indy driver.

What is the likelihood of them being re-introduced? There could be a red background for the cars in the production championship as well.

That might make new viewers understand the classes better.

[Carl Breeze fan]

I think even a two year old could tell the difference between a touring car and a production car! By the way, it is true about the Ni (2) and san (3). I read this whole thread hoping nobody had said it so I could look clever, but obviously John is cleverer than I am:(

[John]

Originally posted by Carl Breeze fan
I think even a two year old could tell the difference between a touring car and a production car! By the way, it is true about the Ni (2) and san (3). I read this whole thread hoping nobody had said it so I could look clever, but obviously John is cleverer than I am:(

You might think that about the two year old but I couldn't possibly comment - there are people I know, mentioning no names, who were confused by two classes of cars!!

As for the Nissan thing - I wasnt clever enough to find the answer before posting the question though was I?!? ;)

Cheers for confirming my guess tho! :)

[thommo_fan]

renault's sponsor in 1999 were nescafe blend 37 so thats obviously why boullion's number was 37.

what about why tom kristensen had the number 77 in 2000?

[John]

Only reason I could think of was that the reserve driver (Peter Kox) would have been #7 (as he was when he raced in rounds 3 and 4) but I think thats more coincidence than anything.

I was more puzzled at Tarquini's number that aeason. Any ideas what that related to?

[Mocko]

2001 had a lot of numbers related to each other:

Vauxhall-

4 - Muller
5 - Plato
9 - Thompson
For Bennett multiply his team mates number by the amount of other Vauxhalls and you get 27

Peugeot-
22 - Eaves ...times 11
44 - Soper

Alfa-

The three drivers were 14, 15, 16.

MG-

2 - Reid
22 - Hughes

[John]

Alfa had four drivers in 01

Blair was #17

Good job they didnt need anymore as #18 was Priaulx

[thommo_fan]

didn't tarquni have number 18 on his car in 2000?

if he did then that was because he finished 18th in the drivers championship in 1999, i think.

[John]

Apart from the fact he finished 14th?? Sorry!! ;)

There must be some significance of #18 but cant see it myself! :confused:

[thommo_fan]

maybe he thought he was 18 again!:D :D

[John]

Maybe there is no reason behind it and I'm just being too analytical!! Thats what uni does for you!

[AussieV8]

In regards to numbers and SPORT here I go.

Work this one out.

What team had 3 and what team had 1. Car racing :confused:

Maybe not but it happened today He He He He He He He........:p

Cricket, Tennis and now Soccer !!!: :) :D :cool: :rolleyes:

Just havin fun...:D

[John]

I'm not gonna be drawn into this discussion Aussie! :D

We all know who's better really so we'll say no more about it!! (PS didn't see you at Japan and Korea last year?!) :p

[AussieV8]

Just warming up my young man:p

So nice to see some forumites have a sence of humour and can take the P##s..:D

Do you want a tissue.

[John]

Dont think I'd push the Cricket thing to far either or someone might mention the following player:

In true 'They Think Its All Over' (a popular sports quiz over here Aussie! ;) !) 'Name Game' sytle:

First name is the same as ......Ritchie
Second name is the past tense of wear


:p Sorry mate but someone had to! ;)

[AussieV8]

Dont like him he loves himself to death. ;) BUT.

Touche :p

Lets get back to the cars..:D

[John]

Yeah, getting back to cars....... anyone know what number Mike Briggs (who stood in for James Thompson in 95) was. Was it #24?

Also the same year's entry list has Jeff Allam down on the results table - anyone know what he drove? Was he another stand in for James at Vauxhall?

[Cleland Fan]

Originally posted by John
Yeah, getting back to cars....... anyone know what number Mike Briggs (who stood in for James Thompson in 95) was. Was it #24?

Also the same year's entry list has Jeff Allam down on the results table - anyone know what he drove? Was he another stand in for James at Vauxhall?

Mike Briggs was indeed 24. It just followed on from Cleland being 4 and Thompson being 14.

Jeff Allam stood in for Thompson at Knockhill the weekend after he had his accident. After then it was Briggs who took over, along with winning the South African title at the same time.

[John]

Thank you! We now have another vauxhall expert on the forum! Cool!! :)

Don't suppose you know what number car Allam had at Knockhill then do you??

[Claw]

11 or 20 I think.

[Cleland Fan]

He had 10 as he was 10th in 1994.

[John]

Bailey was #11 and Leslie #20

#10 spot isn't filled so that'll be it! Cheers guys!

[Claw]

Doh, close though.

[McKay]

A list of numbers.

Honda 2000
Thompson #4
Tarquini #18
Kox #7
Kristensen #77
Leslie #2

Audi 96
Bintcliffe #44 (Because of the 4 wheel drive?)
Biela #45

Ford 98
Hoy #32 Dunno why
Baird #33 Dunno why
Mansell #55 (two red fives)

Honda 98
Thomo #5
Kox #50 ( 55 taken by mansell)

Honda 99
Thomo #3
Kox #33

[John]

Those Audi numbers must be something like that because they were always on the Audis in other European Championships. The 44 = 4*4 thing might be right, because when Muller came along in 98 with 2WD he was number 12 rather than 44/45. Only reason I can think for #12 is its close to #2 (as in 2WD)??

[John]

Another thing about car numbers that I've just realised - Ecurie Ecosse always had #78 & #79. In 1992 Leslie finished 7th and therefore should have had #7 in 1993, but had #79 again, so whatever it is there is/was some reason for him having 79 or the team having #78 & #79. Anyone shed some light on this? Ta.

[McKay]

I can tell you my theory for Ford in 1997. Hoy had 9 and Radisich had 15. In 1995 harvey had 9 and Rydell 15. They copied it. But i dont know why peugoet had 12 and 14 in 1997.

Sorry John cant help you there. I also wondered that.

[McKay]

or it might be bacuse Radisich had 15 in his 1st season