Mazda WTCC maybe next year?

[Williams Ren 99]

According to Auto Express magazine Mazda are planning on going into the WTCC next season, be good to see them there,
Does anybody know if the WTCC british round will be back at Silverstone next year or is it always going to be at Brands now?
cheers

[Pedalpusher]

According to Auto Express magazine Mazda are planning on going into the WTCC next season, be good to see them there,
Does anybody know if the WTCC british round will be back at Silverstone next year or is it always going to be at Brands now?
cheers
I think Brands signed a three year deal with the WTCC, so for 2007 & 2008 it's back at Brands.

[simon1220]

yes thats right, they've got it till 2008, with an option for another 2 years after that

[Williams Ren 99]

Was hoping they'd be going to Silverstone next year so I'd go and see them, but never mind

[nealfan]

Mazda in wtcc! Excellent more cars for wtcc! Do you know what car they are going to use?

[Williams Ren 99]

/\/\ Dont know mate, the mag did'nt saywhich model they would be using just that Mazda might be entering next year, I would probably think they'd use the Mazda 6 or the Mazda 3

[nealfan]

/\/\ Dont know mate, the mag did'nt saywhich model they would be using just that Mazda might be entering next year, I would probably think they'd use the Mazda 6 or the Mazda 3

I thought they might use one of those 2! We'll have to wait and see

[Williams Ren 99]

I think either of them would make a great Touring car, especially the Mazda 3

[Marc W]

Was hoping they'd be going to Silverstone next year so I'd go and see them, but never mind


I much prefer Brands out of the two circuits for the race, I like Silverstone as a circuit but I thought Brands provided much better racing for the WTCC.

[Williams Ren 99]

Brands dont look to bad actually, but its to far to go for me, so I thought Silverstone would be better as its Slap bang in the middle of the country more or less.

[simel2006]

The car Mazda might be using could be the RX8. They have been testing it in one or the Asian Touring car Championships.

[V6.]

Well they have launched a silly BHP version of the Mazda 6 and they are doing the same for the 3, so wont suprise me for either of those cars.

I doubt they would use the RX8, both on rules terms, and the fact that cars main sale point in the rotary engine, which im sure they would not allow.

I quess it will be "Fords" assualt on the WTCC

[mondeoman]

Ford only own 51% of Mazda and don't really make any decisions for them so it would be Mazdas entry.

[Williams Ren 99]

Well they have launched a silly BHP version of the Mazda 6 and they are doing the same for the 3, so wont suprise me for either of those cars.

I doubt they would use the RX8, both on rules terms, and the fact that cars main sale point in the rotary engine, which im sure they would not allow.

I quess it will be "Fords" assualt on the WTCC
I would very much doubt them using the RX8 dont suit to the touring cars in my opinion

[Williams Ren 99]

Ford only own 51% of Mazda and don't really make any decisions for them so it would be Mazdas entry.
Never knew ford owned Mazda, Know its only half of it more or less but still never knew they did

[V6.]

Never knew ford owned Mazda, Know its only half of it more or less but still never knew they did

Mazda 121
http://picnic.ciao.com/fr/160954.jpg

Ford Fiesta
http://www.top-autobazar.cz/gallery/1112711603-autobazar.jpg

Thats what made me realise when I saw a 121 on the road ages ago.

[dannybo]

Just because they are the same car doesnt necessarily mean that one owns the other, look at the Ford Galaxy and VW Sharan.
Vauxhall & Suzuki have a similar example. It stinks if you ask me, I mean these manufacturers are splitting the costs, but where is the saving for us, the cars should cost half as much?:rolleyes:

So if you buy a clone, make sure its a cheap one. :)

[Williams Ren 99]

Just because they are the same car doesnt necessarily mean that one owns the other, look at the Ford Galaxy and VW Sharan.
Vauxhall & Suzuki have a similar example. It stinks if you ask me, I mean these manufacturers are splitting the costs, but where is the saving for us, the cars should cost half as much?:rolleyes:

So if you buy a clone, make sure its a cheap one. :)
Could'nt agree more dannybo the manufacturers are being too greedy:mad:

[Williams Ren 99]

Mazda 121
http://picnic.ciao.com/fr/160954.jpg

Ford Fiesta
http://www.top-autobazar.cz/gallery/1112711603-autobazar.jpg

Thats what made me realise when I saw a 121 on the road ages ago.
There both nasty:eek:

[Marc W]

Just because they are the same car doesnt necessarily mean that one owns the other

Although in the case of Mazda and Ford it does! Both those cars have since been replaced though and the replacements don't look anything like each other!

[dannybo]

Although in the case of Mazda and Ford it does! Both those cars have since been replaced though and the replacements don't look anything like each other!
Yes, I know. I was just making the point that, just because they look the same, doesnt mean that either are the parent company over the other.:)

[mondeoman]

Could'nt agree more dannybo the manufacturers are being too greedy:mad:
It's not about greed, it's about remaining competitive and staying in business. Producing a platform for a new car is very expensive if this and more can be shared with other cars in a manufacturers group or other manufacturers it can save alot of time and money. Having said that the new Galaxy has nothing to do with VW anymore, but does share some components etc. with the new S Max. Ford have signed up with Fiat to base the next Ka and Panda on the same platforms. It makes even more sense to share platforms etc. on smaller cars as there is very little profit in them compared to more upmarket models.

[dannybo]

It makes even more sense to share platforms etc. on smaller cars as there is very little profit in them compared to more upmarket models.
I think you have that the wrong way round. If there is more profit in upmarket models, why have Ford stopped producing their flagship?
Small cars outsell upmarkets cars by alot, upmarket cars cost more to design/manufacture etc. Upmarket cars make up for this in aftersales service costs & the like.

Sharing a platform for a car is one thing, but selling the same car re-badged is complete greed.

[Williams Ren 99]

It's not about greed, it's about remaining competitive and staying in business. Producing a platform for a new car is very expensive if this and more can be shared with other cars in a manufacturers group or other manufacturers it can save alot of time and money. Having said that the new Galaxy has nothing to do with VW anymore, but does share some components etc. with the new S Max. Ford have signed up with Fiat to base the next Ka and Panda on the same platforms. It makes even more sense to share platforms etc. on smaller cars as there is very little profit in them compared to more upmarket models.
I still say selling the same car rebaged is just 100% total greedy, There are plenty of people out there who agree with me too

[Williams Ren 99]

It's not about greed, it's about remaining competitive and staying in business. Producing a platform for a new car is very expensive if this and more can be shared with other cars in a manufacturers group or other manufacturers it can save alot of time and money. Having said that the new Galaxy has nothing to do with VW anymore, but does share some components etc. with the new S Max. Ford have signed up with Fiat to base the next Ka and Panda on the same platforms. It makes even more sense to share platforms etc. on smaller cars as there is very little profit in them compared to more upmarket models.
I still say selling the same car rebaged is just 100% total greed,as Dannyboy said above its wrong

[nealfan]

I totally agree with you all! Making clones is not good! VW, Seat and Ford teamed up to make the Sharan, Alhambra and Galaxy! But it was all stupid! I work for VW! As you already know VW own Seat, but where ford came into was confusing! The parts on all 3 are shared, you will see a VW/Seat part here and a Ford part there! With all of their own badges and sort of family appearance! They have the same seats, same engines, same doors, they even had the same shape lights, just the rears different colours! Then they facelifted them all to their own specifications apart from doors, seats and engines!

Has anyone heard of a VW Taro, its a Toyota Hi-lux VW badged, mainly in south africa

[Williams Ren 99]

I totally agree with you all! Making clones is not good! VW, Seat and Ford teamed up to make the Sharan, Alhambra and Galaxy! But it was all stupid! I work for VW! As you already know VW own Seat, but where ford came into was confusing! The parts on all 3 are shared, you will see a VW/Seat part here and a Ford part there! With all of their own badges and sort of family appearance! They have the same seats, same engines, same doors, they even had the same shape lights, just the rears different colours! Then they facelifted them all to their own specifications apart from doors, seats and engines!

Has anyone heard of a VW Taro, its a Toyota Hi-lux VW badged, mainly in south africa
Yeah heard of VW Taro and Hi lux, both are pretty nasty IMO

[dannybo]

Has anyone heard of a VW Taro, its a Toyota Hi-lux VW badged, mainly in south africa
Is the Hi-lux the pick-up TopGear tried & failed to kill several times? If it is, then im of the opinion everybody needs one in their garage, you know, just in case.;)

[nealfan]

Yeah heard of VW Taro and Hi lux, both are pretty nasty IMO

I agree, very nasty

[mondeoman]

I think you have that the wrong way round. If there is more profit in upmarket models, why have Ford stopped producing their flagship?
Small cars outsell upmarkets cars by alot, upmarket cars cost more to design/manufacture etc. Upmarket cars make up for this in aftersales service costs & the like.

Sharing a platform for a car is one thing, but selling the same car re-badged is complete greed.
As someone who works in the car manufacturing industry I know as far as Ford are concerned there definitely is more money to be made in selling upmarket cars. The reason Ford stopped building the Scorpio is because a lot of people refuse to acknowledge Ford as a premium brand so sales were slow. This being the reason why Ford bought Jaguar, Volvo and Aston Martin. Sadly the same people now feel the same about Jaguar. But the Jaguars built since Ford ownership are of better quality especially in the panel quality and build. (I know this because I was part of a team that refurbished a lot of their press tools that could not produce consistent good quality panels without alot of rework before the bodies were assembled. Having seen the way the old panels were I'd avoid buying an old jag because if hit in a crash and spot welds broke the panels will be practically sprung loaded and liable to fly off).
There will be little difference in the manufacturing process between small and large cars so cost will be similar, but obviously a larger premium car will have more toys and some better quality plastics and leather. But these do not add up to make less profit for the manufacturer, as they only make up a small extra cost comparatively so there is more profit in larger premium cars, also because they sell in lower volumes they have to make bigger profits to remain viable.

I totally agree with you all! Making clones is not good! VW, Seat and Ford teamed up to make the Sharan, Alhambra and Galaxy! But it was all stupid! I work for VW! As you already know VW own Seat, but where ford came into was confusing! The parts on all 3 are shared, you will see a VW/Seat part here and a Ford part there! With all of their own badges and sort of family appearance! They have the same seats, same engines, same doors, they even had the same shape lights, just the rears different colours! Then they facelifted them all to their own specifications apart from doors, seats and engines.
Ford and VW teamed up to build the Galaxy and Sharan, the SEAT Alhambra was a cheaper after thought which came along at least a year later. In the UK the Galaxy was the main seller of the three on the outset. There are very minor differences between the bonnets on the early Galaxy/Sharans (I know because I worked on the press tools for both vehicles) The reason Ford were involved was because at the time neither Ford or VW would want to take a chance entering into an established MPV market, plus sharing costs etc. would ensure the process could be speeded up. Ford could probably have done it on there own at the time, not sure about VW, SEAT at the time I doubt very much. Now after 12 years the cars are established and Ford have gone out on their own.
I must admit I don't like to see cars from different manufacturers being exactly the same apart from badging, but most manufacturers are going away from this now, but still share the same platforms and hardware. The current Ford Focus shares its platform with Volvo and Mazda. The next Mondeo shares its platfom with S max and Galaxy. The Ka and Puma were built on the same platform from the Fiesta of the same period. The Sport Ka and Street Ka are built on the uprated Puma platform. The Escort Cosworth was built on a shortend Sierra platform.
The Fiesta as a Mazda 121 was only available for a short period, the Mazda having extra styling on the bonnet which the Fiesta aquired after the Mazda 121 reverted back to a Mazda model.

[nealfan]

As someone who works in the car manufacturing industry I know as far as Ford are concerned there definitely is more money to be made in selling upmarket cars. The reason Ford stopped building the Scorpio is because a lot of people refuse to acknowledge Ford as a premium brand so sales were slow. This being the reason why Ford bought Jaguar, Volvo and Aston Martin. Sadly the same people now feel the same about Jaguar. But the Jaguars built since Ford ownership are of better quality especially in the panel quality and build. (I know this because I was part of a team that refurbished a lot of their press tools that could not produce consistent good quality panels without alot of rework before the bodies were assembled. Having seen the way the old panels were I'd avoid buying an old jag because if hit in a crash and spot welds broke the panels will be practically sprung loaded and liable to fly off).
There will be little difference in the manufacturing process between small and large cars so cost will be similar, but obviously a larger premium car will have more toys and some better quality plastics and leather. But these do not add up to make less profit for the manufacturer, as they only make up a small extra cost comparatively so there is more profit in larger premium cars, also because they sell in lower volumes they have to make bigger profits to remain viable.

Ford and VW teamed up to build the Galaxy and Sharan, the SEAT Alhambra was a cheaper after thought which came along at least a year later. In the UK the Galaxy was the main seller of the three on the outset. There are very minor differences between the bonnets on the early Galaxy/Sharans (I know because I worked on the press tools for both vehicles) The reason Ford were involved was because at the time neither Ford or VW would want to take a chance entering into an established MPV market, plus sharing costs etc. would ensure the process could be speeded up. Ford could probably have done it on there own at the time, not sure about VW, SEAT at the time I doubt very much. Now after 12 years the cars are established and Ford have gone out on their own.
I must admit I don't like to see cars from different manufacturers being exactly the same apart from badging, but most manufacturers are going away from this now, but still share the same platforms and hardware. The current Ford Focus shares its platform with Volvo and Mazda. The next Mondeo shares its platfom with S max and Galaxy. The Ka and Puma were built on the same platform from the Fiesta of the same period. The Sport Ka and Street Ka are built on the uprated Puma platform. The Escort Cosworth was built on a shortend Sierra platform.
The Fiesta as a Mazda 121 was only available for a short period, the Mazda having extra styling on the bonnet which the Fiesta aquired after the Mazda 121 reverted back to a Mazda model.

You know too much,

[Williams Ren 99]

You know too much,
No hes just a very educated man as he said he works in the motor industry

[nealfan]

No hes just a very educated man as he said he works in the motor industry

I know, i was only joking

[dannybo]

I still dont like the way the car industry is going. Im sure im not alone either.
With every manufacturer that gets gobbled up by bigger companies, the less choice the consumer gets. Sure the company still gets its own image and PR machine along with it, but the actual product, the car, loses its identity.

[Williams Ren 99]

/\ Agree, This guy knows what he's on about dont he;)

[thlbtcc]

The Shalhmalaxy thing was just a bad example of the whole car-sharing thing. As we all know, VW's are the same as Audi's, Skoda's and Seats. However, unline the MPV, they all look entirely different now and even the interiors look nothing alike [Apart from the minor details]. If you saw and Audi TT, a Skoda Octavia and a Mk4 Golf, you would never know that they were exactly the same underneath. The same applies the the Mk5 Golf, the new Seat Leon [The one in the BTCC and WTCC], the new Skoda Octavia, the new Audi TT, the Audi A3, the VW Touran, the Golf Plus and Seat Altea and Toledo, becuase the basic underpinnings are the same. Also, the VW Phaeton's chassis is used for the Bentley Continental GT and Flying Spur and the VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne SUV's are the same.

With the car market in the sticky situation that it is in at present, this should be applauded as it saves the company a huge amount of R&D [Time & Money] and you can tell the cars apart. General Motors does a similer thing in the states with it's [Rubbish] SUV's and is still lossing money hand over fist.
Ford's new Galaxy is the same car as the S-Max, the next Mondeo, the next Mazda 6 and the new Volvo S80 underneath. Also, Peugeot Citreon do a huge amount of platform sharing. Their diesel engines were devolped in partnership with Ford [1.4, 1.6 & 2.0 - 1.4 Diesel is also used in the Toyota Yaris & Aygo], Land Rover and Jaguar [2.7]. The Citroen C1, Peugeot 107 and Toyota Aygo are exactly the same car made in the same plant [Although, you can tell they are the same]. They are also going to re-badge the new Mitsubishi Outlander as Peugeots and Citroens. The Citroen C4 is the same as a Peugeot 307, although you couldn't get 2 more different cars and the chassis has roots back to the early 90's Citroen ZX platform [Which is still used under the Citroen Berlingo and Peugeot Partner vans]. Every equivalent Peugoet and Citroen is the same underneath and the Citroen C2, C3 & Pluriel are the same as a Peugeot 207 [Which itself is a improvement over the old 206 Chassis, which used 106 and Saxo parts, which in turn was an updated Citroen AX chassis]. The Citroen C6 is a stretched C5 and the Peugeot 407 is a C5 without the gas suspension. Phew! I need a life

I hope Mazda make a return to Touring Cars like the 90's. If they do join the WTCC it would be great if there was a team in the BTCC run by Mazda UK [In white with David Leslie and Matt Neal, though it's never going to happen]. They could use the Mazda 3 saloon or the Mazda 6 Saloon [Better aero than the hatchbacks] although i'd love it if they could use an RX-8 [If you have played the Playstation 2 game Gran Turismo 4, there is a racing modified RX-8 that looks terrific and similar to one if it was built under S2000 rules]. Mazda are definately owned by Ford, 51% gives Ford a controlling stake, although Mazda tend to go their own way. The 3 and 5 are Ford Focus underneath, the 2 is a Ford Fusion but the 6, RX8 and MX5 are all unique.

[Williams Ren 99]

This thread makes strange, Because it started out about Mazda joining the WTCC next season and its gone too having arguments about manufacturers making the same model cars and just changing the colour of the brake lights,Strange;)

[mondeoman]

Just to try and bring it back towards a motorsport topic a sec, aren't the Chevy's used in WTCC, rebadged Daewoo's?
Back off topic again, I wonder which manufacturers were the first to start the rebadged car syndrome. Rover/Honda possibly in the 80's.
As mentioned, the car industry is in turmoil, there is serious over capacity in production in the world. Couple this with the growing industry in China and other countries where costing and wages are very low, alot of established manufacturers are having to be seriously careful how and where they spend their money.
In America, Ford are closing lots of their plants where some models were duplicated, at one time this duplication was necessary for demand. But now it has come back and bit them on the backside, GM too.
There are rumours that Ford and GM were supposed to have made a pact years ago, something about if they ever seriously looked like going under to the Japanese opposition, they would join forces. Will that ever happen I don't know.
There was talk a couple of years ago of Ford pulling out of Europe almost completely leaving the Ka as stand alone brand. Ford are currently making profits in Europe but losses in America.
Hopefully things will improve eventually but I think it will take time and their are likely to be plenty of casualties along the way. I work at Ford in Dagenham where the Fiestas used to be built. The Assembly plant was knocked down years ago, another part where body sub assemblies were welded has just been demolished, some of these sub assemblies although now for newer vehicles are retained in the stamping plant where I work, most of it has gone abroad. All that remains in Dagenham now is the Engine plant responsible for the Diesel engines and the Stamping plant. The engine plant has a future, as investment has been made, but then we had been promised the new Fiesta and were to be the lead plant, but as troubles started Dagenham was the cheapest to off load. In the stamping plant we produse panels for Ford, Jaguar, Land Rover, Range Rover and Mazda and the part where I work we build the press tools for all the above, there is even talk we may be building tools for a new Lotus, but then their is also talk of the plant finally being closed down which would just leave the engine plant.

Sorry to go on, please feel free to pull this back on topic again.
I'd welcome Ford, Mazda and Volvo back into BTCC and WTCC.

[dannybo]

I'd welcome any manufacturer back with open arms, but I think the sad reality is that they will all pull out.
Gone are the days (just about) where car makers can show off their abilities on the track, nationally at least.

Its not all bad, there is still plenty of opportunity, with sponsorship and Independant teams.
In the future I would like to see big brand teams ie: Team McDonalds & Team Vodafone etc...

I think this is the way forward, rather than manufacturer based championships.