The Future Of Global Touring Car Racing

[Stuart]

While the BTCC is starting to produce some sensational racing again, I was beginning to wonder how long Touring Car racing the world over can survive before another major rethink is required.
Britain and the ETCC are vaguely similar in principal at least, and I believe Sweden is running very close to ETCC rules this year, but France is running prototypes, Germany has its awesome DTM, Australia has the monstrous V8's while in South America, TC2000 is just complete hatstand ( in the best possible way)!
In the mid-80's most countries ran to Group A, allowing well funded teams to compete in their home ETCC rounds as well as trips to Macau, Sandown, Bathurst and Wellington. Early Super Touring rules made for the short lived, badly formatted Touring Car World Cup. Since the demise of Super Touring, everyone has come up with their own rules.
So what next? How come the world didn't take to the new BTCC rules in the way it took to Super Touring? And what chance do we have of seeing another Touring Car World Cup?
Most importantly: are the BTCC rules strong enough for the championship to survive without the Production Class.... should we have gone the DTM route?

[Paul Rayner]

Should we have followed the DTM route? Simple answer no - we couldn't afford it. Another answer about that is that the manufacturers interested in selling cars to the British market would not like a series with V8, rear-wheel drive cars, as these have nothing in common with the road-going versions apart from the body shells.

Everyone around the world needed to change Touring Car regs. They all thought up their own and, unsurprisingly, they're all different. All were made dependent on the manufacturers and cars that the series organisers in each country think that they can attract. In the coming years, maybe some countries will realise that they went the wrong way, and change, and maybe adapt British, Australian, French, ETCC or DTM rules instead. But every country has invested a lot of money in their new rules, and promised manufacturers stability. None of them wants to change their direction until they're sure they're going the wrong way.

[touringlegend]

Some very good points, Paul.


I may be biased but I feel the BTCC/ETCC regs are going to be the dominating ones of the world. Those are the ones with the most manufacturer interest at the moment.

I hate to say this, but I feel us through & through BTCC fans may have to swallow our pride and go with the ETCC regs. I hope the BTCC regs hold out and get interest, but with a common set of regulations more makes would be in. I think the only reason BMW Great Britain are in the ETCC, is not because of the exposure, but because it is simply cheaper than developing & running a BTCC team - the ETCC 320's were all built for them and all they have to do is buy them.

[The Stig]

Why can't BTCC be the series which competing series aspire to and want to emulate ? Maybe the way forward is a European wide formula, politics permitting, culminating in a "world series"
whereby the best European drivers and racing teams, compete against similar worldwide racers. For the record, BTCC, is managed by a forward thinking, innovative management structure, much of Europe would benefit from listening to.

[John]

I was watching a video in bed on Wednesday night (Lock Stock I think) and fell asleep, I woke up in middle of the night to find a DTM race from 2001 on the TV (which was recorded on the tape as Chequered flag along with some F-Ford racing that I've never seen before either)

Anyway - the DTM race was really good and very exciting with the winner decided on the last lap with a wheel-to-wheel dice. (Was the Dutch round I think - the circuit next to the sea). Excellent entertainment which looks like the organisers made the right decision about the regs - however the fact remains that despite the fact there are plenty of cars on the grid, these cars only come from one of three models - ie the Merc, Astra or AudiTT. Thus the only real differences between a lot of the cars is the colour schemes and perhaps the way the teams set them up. This may be a good thing as it promotes close racing, however there is not a lot of variation.

BTCC only has 4 manufacturers, but there are others represented by private teams (ie VLRs Pugs) and plenty of variation in the production class with many different makes/models of car. The problem it seems to me with DTM occurs when one of Merc, Opel or the Abt team decide to pull out or go and race somewhere else, some cars would be present operated by private teams, but from what I gather from the series if you dont have the latest spec car you're no-where on the grid.

As far as I'm aware I haven't come across any talk of a new manufacturer entering the DTM, but have frequently heard about Opel thinking of pulling out (especially as they tend to be 3rd out of the teams now).

Dont know what the above actually proves, other than the DTM seems much more reliant on a small number of manufacturers than the BTCC, which probably isnt a healthy long term strategy.

[Mocko]

I'd rather if the BTCC went for a much more powerful format (300+ BHP; whether that'll be affordable or not I don't but if it is they should go that route) make it spectacular and race in Europe. Two races in Spa or any other country France or the Benelux. The thing is, no matter how rich the ETCC's history is, the BTCC will always better it and frankly the British motorsport scene is better because, let's face it, we're very passionate about our motorsport. It's why Brooklands isn't destroyed and the Goodwood meetings are internationally popular. With races in Europe it would keep manufacturers happy.

That's what should happen.

So far the V8 Supercars Australia is the success story so far but if the BTCC go with the above I'm sure everyone will love it internationally. In fact an end of (motorsport) season (last week of November) enduro (12 hours/1000 miles) invitational to any marque would be nice; touring cars version of Le Mans at Silverstone.

Back to reality...

The BTCC is entertaining me more than any other series (even rallying) so I'm happy but It doesn't seem to be enough. The ETCC will remain constant; bickering and Alfa/BMW will reign. V8 Supercars will continue to be a great series and the DTM willstay as popular as it is now. The really interesting events to happen politically will be between 2005-2007.

I hope that makes sense.

[McKay]

Do you think it would be possible to have a DTM and BTCC Race? With both championships cars on the grid at once? Or are they too different for that? That would be awesome!

[John]

From an entertainment point of view thats a great idea!! :)

Are there any tracks that both have raced on to give an idea of lap time comparisons. Only possibility I can think of is if the DTM tested somewhere where the BTC cars tested (eg in spain).

[McKay]

Donnington of course :rolleyes: :p :D
Theyve both raced there aswell

[John]

Did the DTM race at Donny? Totally missed that one!! Oh well should be a piece of....erm... as this is a family forum... cake, to compare lap times.

[McKay]

Manuel Reuter - Opel Team Phoenix - 1:38.703 - Pole
James Thompson - Vauxhall Astra Coupe - 1m 41.378s - Pole

ARG!

[John]

Easy peasy, stick some lead in the boot of the DTMs and we've got ourselves a race!! :)

Times are actually pretty close.

[McKay]

Always an answer!
Thomo Vs Aiello,
Vauxhall Vs Opel,
Honda Vs Audi (1996 me remebers),
Merecdes Vs MG
Proton Vs Anyone else!
Winkelhock and Menu back in britain!
WOW! It would ceratinly pull a very large crowd!

[John]

Or for a totally random suggestion - remember those Rally satges round Silverstone when the drivers swap between cars..... well..... hows about having 15 BTC cars and 15 DTM cars and each driver has to race 2or3 BTC cars and 2or3 DTM cars in the various heats!! Eg Thommo would do one race in a BTC Astra, one in a BTC MG etc, then do one in a DTM Astra, one in a DTM Merc etc. and the results are agregated to determine the winner!!

Not that that would ever happen!! :mad:

[McKay]

People would argue it was too difficult for the fans to understand. Plus the drivers couldnt get used to cars jsut like that. The two series race migth happend but that wouldnt. :(

[John]

Originally posted by McKay
Plus the drivers couldnt get used to cars jsut like that.

Would sort out who was a good driver from who was just there to bring money to the team though wouldn't it! ;) Cant see some of the drivers who are in the series doing too well with that (mentioning no names of course!!) Where as the likes of Thommo, Muller, Reid etc would find it easier (not easy) to adapt to the different cars!! Agree though that it wouldnt ever happen - that was a Bernie type mad suggestion like the F1 driver swap rule!! :D

[Stuart]

Kinda like the idea of DTM V BTCC.... and how about getting Mark Skaife, Marco Ambrose, Steven Richards, Glenn Seaton etc...over with some "big bangers"?

As for the DTM at Donny....John you MUST get to the race on July 27th! It's mind blowing stuff! Watching Bernd Schnieder kerb hopping the Old Hairpin is incredible!
As a purist, I really wish we'd gone the DTM route but as a number of people have written here, it just isn't what the BTCC needs.

[John]

Shows how good the coverage of foreign racing is in this country doesnt it?! Thought it was just the ETCC we got at our tracks and thought the DTM went to Holland and Belgium (?)

Gonna have to print out the scedules and keep an eye out in the TV guides for the foreign rounds then (does anyone know if C4 still cover it - Chequered flag had DTM highlights in 2001, but never saw any in 02).

[Bill]

Originally posted by McKay
Manuel Reuter - Opel Team Phoenix - 1:38.703 - Pole
James Thompson - Vauxhall Astra Coupe - 1m 41.378s - Pole
ARG!

This doesn't take into account the fact that the track was very greasy for DTM qualifying. In the warm up:
Marcel F‰ssler (CH) AMG Mercedes-Benz CLK, 1m30.201sz
so really there is about 9-10 seconds in it, which is more than in 2000 with the two classes.
Therefore, it wouldn't be very safe :(

[thommo_fan]

10 seconds sounds a bit more like it, 3 seconds between btcc and dtm did sound good tho.

channel 4 didn't show dtm last year, its only on motorstv i think.

[Mocko]

You know, I can't believe a good thread with the potential to be rich with good, intelligent points has degenerated into a seriously taken, impossible, fantasy.

[mark]

I really don't see the point of ideas about having BTCC races at Spa etc, Ye sure - great exposure but it's the BRITISH Touring Car Championship which is UK based. Surely it would just get confusing if they did and eventually it would be swallowed up by the ETCC lot.

DTM certainly does offer some cracking racing, I remember watching a race a year or two ago and there was one huge pile up in it, great action! However, for the BTCC to adopt V8 rules would be silly, no current BTCC manufacturer offers a V8 in their BTCC respective range.

Same above, applies for Aussie V8's, hugely entertaining but only suited to being down under or markets where Commodores and Falcons are sold.

ETCC and BTCC are clearly very similar in regs, and I wouldn't be suprised one day, if these two joined forces on a set of regs but still remaining seperate (i.e like Super Tourer rules) but then, we would lose our individuality between race series, which seems a shame.

BTCC has a guaranteed future up until 2006 for its regs, plenty of time to attract more manufacturers and decide on how it should continue. In my opinion, we still have one of the best (if not THE best) Touring Car championships in the world and I reckon this season might just help to confirm that. :)