Fiona Leggate?

[flip]

Does anyone know if Fiona is racing this year in the BTCC? or if she is doing another race series?

Cheers:D

[mattlovestbs]

as far as i'm aware, she's gonna be elsewhere

[tdb]

as far as i'm aware, she's gonna be elsewhere

No offence, but your awareness is, at best, very limited!

Malcom has stated that Fiona will be in the btcc in 07.

it may be a btc spec car rather than S2000, but it is what Fiona wants and Malcom can make it happen.

[Jonathan McLeod]

So there being foolish again? Why not run in SEATs or Clios where she can learn?

[FlashGordon]

So there being foolish again? Why not run in SEATs or Clios where she can learn?
Why learn from second best? If she is coming back into the BTCC, I welcome her and wish her well.

[marc]

I wish her all the best and hope she has a good season... Although better than last year i hope! Good luck fiona!

[Jonathan McLeod]

Why learn from second best? If she is coming back into the BTCC, I welcome her and wish her well.

Because in 06 she was nothing less than a liability on track - and I'm sure G.Smith will agree with me there!

[Les]

I'm sure G.Smith will agree with me there!


Gavin <let's smash Dave P of the track> Smith - yeah right!

Come on Fiona girl and race in the BTCC again

[FlashGordon]

Because in 06 she was nothing less than a liability on track - and I'm sure G.Smith will agree with me there!
Im going to take a wild guess here and say you dont think Women should be in racing. And she tried her best which is all anyone can do. Wanna go try and do half as good as she did?

[Jonathan McLeod]

No, I welcome woman in motorsport, and ideally a 50/50 mix. I didn't say she didn't try her best, just that she is out of her depth in BTCC and would be wise to do a season or two of SEATs or Clios!

What relevance does my driving ability have?

[tdb]

Considering she finished ahead of supposedly "better cars" and "better drivers" on a regular basis, i don't think she was "out of her depth" at all!

Maybe in a better car and a team more suited to her, she could show her true talent and cause a few shockwaves!

[Frantic]

and dont forget that due to budget constraints she had to run with the same engine most of the season (hence she had to miss croft when it finally died). Best of luck to her i say. you go girl!

[flip]

i hope she does come back into the btcc. hopefully with a better car and more of that money every team and driver needs.
remember (if anyone knows this) she was driving a 2 year old BTCC astra and the first team on the bio fuel. i think she and the team did a very good job.

you cant say she was a liability on the track....i believe a Mr Plato is an animal on the track!!!! there are numerous occasions ive seen him punt other drivers off the track..neal, muller, turkington etc.....

[ATF]

Considering she finished ahead of supposedly "better cars" and "better drivers" on a regular basis, i don't think she was "out of her depth" at all!

Compare her performances to when O'Neill raced the car - he made a far bigger impact, which showed the car was more capable than what she achieved.

[Reidy_fan]

dont think Fiona was out of her depth, she did well and managed to avoid a lot of contact unlike some who used their cars as battering rams (yes that is aimed at Gavin Smith)

The BTCC needs female drivers with ability not to mention looks and Fiona has both :cool:

[turk06]

Compare her performances to when O'Neill raced the car - he made a far bigger impact, which showed the car was more capable than what she achieved.

nothing against fiona but i totally agree with this, paul was able to run at the front for a good while at silverstone whereas when fiona was on the front row due to revers grids she would usually have dropped to a lowly position in a lap or two.

[VkmSpouge]

I don't think Leggate was out of her depth but Paul o'Neill showed what the car was capable of in the last two meetings of the season. If Leggate had still been in the car I doubt she would have matched his performances. That said, I hope Leggate comes back to the BTCC sometime.

[Marc W]

I spoke to Fiona on Friday and although she doesn't have anything signed yet she does still have several posibilities with regards to a BTCC drive. She is hopeful of getting something sorted out soon.

I don't think Paul O'Neill perfomed any better in the car than Fiona. His eighth place at Silverstone was after a race where several cars were knocked out, Fiona managed a 5th place at Silverstone the previous year in very similar circumstances. Considering Paul's prior experience in the car, if Fiona was as bad as some people say he should have been a lot faster whereas his performances were at best only slightly faster.

[Vauxhall astra]

apparantly paul o'neil and fiona leggate are both racing the same car on the bio-eathenal fuel

[Marc W]

I'm guessing you're refering to the Techspeed rumour from last season. I don't know about Paul but Fiona is extremely unlikely to be driving for them.

[VkmSpouge]

I don't think Paul O'Neill perfomed any better in the car than Fiona. His eighth place at Silverstone was after a race where several cars were knocked out, Fiona managed a 5th place at Silverstone the previous year in very similar circumstances. Considering Paul's prior experience in the car, if Fiona was as bad as some people say he should have been a lot faster whereas his performances were at best only slightly faster.

While you could dispute how well Leggate might have done had she raced there, I'm afraid o'Neill's performances were substantially faster than Leggate's.
Of course this can be quantified. The best way to tell speed ultimately is to measure their qualifying, which is clearly all about speed. More to the point you'd want to measure their best lap in qualifying as a percentage from the pole time.

Fiona Leggate over 6 qualifying sessions (not including Oulton Park because the weather conditions were quite variable) averaged: 3.15% away from pole
Paul o'Neill over his 2 qualifying sessions averaged: 1.58% from pole

That is a big difference. Apply those averages around (the relatively short) Knockhill, that would make o'Neill 0.9s faster.

[tdb]

That is a big difference. Apply those averages around (the relatively short) Knockhill, that would make o'Neill 0.9s faster.

Neither raced at knockhill this year!


O'neil had a new engine when he took the seat
And maybe the set up suited him better.
I know fiona was not happy with the set up she was given.

[Marc W]

While you could dispute how well Leggate might have done had she raced there, I'm afraid o'Neill's performances were substantially faster than Leggate's.
Of course this can be quantified. The best way to tell speed ultimately is to measure their qualifying, which is clearly all about speed. More to the point you'd want to measure their best lap in qualifying as a percentage from the pole time.

Fiona Leggate over 6 qualifying sessions (not including Oulton Park because the weather conditions were quite variable) averaged: 3.15% away from pole
Paul o'Neill over his 2 qualifying sessions averaged: 1.58% from pole

That is a big difference. Apply those averages around (the relatively short) Knockhill, that would make o'Neill 0.9s faster.

Comparing the times 2 Qualifying sessions with 6 on completely different circuits with completely different conditions is not really an accurate way of comparing 2 drivers. Comparing the gird positions they acheived they weren't that far apart, plus before Paul took over people had been saying he would be 4 seconds a lap faster and would be able to possibly even win in the car which was clearly not the case!

Also as TDB says Fiona was often not happy with the setups she was given on the car.

[VkmSpouge]

Neither raced at knockhill this year!

I know, that's why I chose the track as a neutral comparison to help explain my point. I could have just said "Over a 60 second lap it would make Leggate 0.9s slower than o'Neill," but I thought giving a track would help.


O'neil had a new engine when he took the seat

Ah right, I had no idea that Leggate was using an old engine all year.


Comparing the times 2 Qualifying sessions with 6 on completely different circuits with completely different conditions is not really an accurate way of comparing 2 drivers.

Yes, it would have been better if o'Neill could have had a couple more races to really get a good idea of how quick he was.

However calculating the time as a percentage off pole is actually a good way of comparing how drivers are in the same championship. Averaging it out over all sessions should also balance it with good performances compensating for bad ones.
Everyone has to deal with the same track conditions as the pole sitter. So if the track conditions are worse then the pole time should be slower. The percentage from pole then becomes an excellent way of judging speed.

Fiona Leggate was very consistent. She was 3.4%, 3.1%, 3.2%, 2.7% (best), 3.5% (worst) and 3.3% from pole in those 6 sessions. So that was most definitely her pace in that car. However o'Neill then came in and was 1.5% and 1.7% from pole. There is no denying an instant improvement in terms of speed relative to pole. What caused it? You decide.
And you're wrong, they weren't on completely different tracks.
Both Leggate and o'Neill were at Brands Hatch Indy, Leggate in April and o'Neill in September. Comparing the two shows o'Neill with 1.5% from the pole and Leggate 3.4% from pole.

But perhaps you're right and in all the meetings Leggate took part in during 2006, the track conditions and bad set-up and old engines simply made her that much slower. That would explain the better points scoring, better finishes and better pace from o'Neill.

[V6.]

I personally would not like to see her in the BTCC next year. There are plenty of better drivers busting a gut in lower formulas that deserve the places more, but it seems her rapid accent to the BTCC is for not other reason than she is a woman. I am all for Woman in Motorsport, I love seeing people like Danica in the IRL doing well. But when you insert woman into positions they clearly neither deserve nor are good enough for, just for the reasons of Publicity and being PC for PC's sake (and a bit of money), it makes the fact they are there farcical and detremental to the sport. My opinions on drivers who dont deserve to be there extends to the other "pay as you go" field fillers in the BTCC by the way, not just her.

It should be an equal playing field, if she wants to be in the BTCC she should prove it by winning or being at least competitive at decent lower formulas like everyone else. Does it not grate with anyone else when after a spin or something when the cameras switch back to her Ben Collins will say something like "doing well up to that point in 13th position" when in reality that means shes normally all on her own near, if not at, the back, seems a bit patronising to me.

[Marc W]

I'm guessing from your post that you didn't see many races live last year and only watched on tv. If you had been at the track you would have seen that she was regularly racing with the other privateer drivers (Jason Hughes, Martyn Bell, Adam Jones etc.) and was very rarely on her own at the back.

[Jonathan McLeod]

Er....

Jason Hughes 27 points
Martyn Bell 8 points
Fiona Leggate 3 points.

Says it all really.

[Les]

that's weird you saying it is nice seeing Danika doing so well and yet a few years ago she was slated for being slow in the FRenaults..... how a bit of experience and time changes things ;)

[adet406]

Er....

Jason Hughes 27 points
Martyn Bell 8 points
Fiona Leggate 3 points.

Says it all really.



jason hughes run buy wsr ( 2 guys from wsr helped his team )

martyn bell wtcc car that finished 2 ed in wtcc in 05

fiona leggate 4 or 5 year old car runing bio fuel .

so in hinze sight u realy cant say points says it all

[tdb]

My opinions on drivers who dont deserve to be there extends to the other "pay as you go" field fillers in the BTCC by the way, not just her.

:confused: So you'd be happy with a 5 car field in 2007 then?

everybody except the factory drivers and Matt Neal is a "pay as you go" driver!

[Frantic]

Lets see how she does this season then and then cast the vote! I think its a litle unfair to her that your being so hard. 06 was her her first (almost/meant to be) full year in btcc she only did a handful of races at the back end of 05, And how good would some of you do in a 4 year old car i wonder?

*waits for first cocky responce"

[mattlovestbs]

5 car field? no thanks. much rather watch WRC then, only 1 car at a time.

lets just say... NO.

a 35 car field would be awesome though :D

[mattlovestbs]

Lets see how she does this season then and then cast the vote! I think its a litle unfair to her that your being so hard. 06 was her her first (almost/meant to be) full year in btcc she only did a handful of races at the back end of 05, And how good would some of you do in a 4 year old car i wonder?

*waits for first cocky responce"

not that well mate. firstly - wouldn't know the car, secondly, wouldn't know the curcuits.

driving a car like that would be the first steps to being a BTCC star

[Brooklands78]

Giver her a break - this subject seems to cause the most extreme opinions of all! There were a couple of male drivers who did most of the rounds last season and ended up with no points, so Fiona was by no means the slowest of the field.

The only way you can effectively judge who drives the Astra best is for Paul O'Neil to do a few laps, step out of the car and then let Fiona have a go, with exactly the same equipment, track conditions, etc. Paul is vastly more experienced than Fiona, so I'd still expect him to come out best, though - but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed back.


There are plenty of better drivers busting a gut in lower formulas that deserve the places more, but it seems her rapid accent to the BTCC is for not other reason than she is a woman.

It's up to the "wannabe's" to come up with the financing, just as Fiona did, if they want to get a BTCC drive ahead of her next season. Money will get you a drive, but sponsors will want a return on their investment so you need some ability to get the sponsorship in the first place.

[Marc W]

Er....

Jason Hughes 27 points
Martyn Bell 8 points
Fiona Leggate 3 points.

Says it all really.

Yes, it says that Fiona had lots of problems with the car and unreliability.:rolleyes:

[Jonathan McLeod]

OK
Fiona

Brands Qualifying 14th Race 1 DNF Race 2 Last Race 3 Last
Mondello Qualifying 14th Race 1 2nd Last Race 2 DNF Race 3 DNS
Oulton Qualifying 13th Race 1 2nd Last Race 2 14th Race 3 11th
Thruxton Qualifying 13th Race 1 3rd Last Race 2 2nd Last Race 3 10th
Croft Qualifying 16th Race 1 DNF Race 2 2nd Last Race 3 14th
Donington Qualifying 16th - Went home
Snetterton 16th Race 1 2nd Last Race 2 2nd Last Race 3 DNF
Then withdrew

Impressive record :D

[Marc W]

Statistics don't show everything though. In several of those races she had problems with the car that slowed its pace but she still got it to the finish.

[tsunami99]

I think there are better drivers than Fiona but I wouldn't go as far as calling her a "liability". I think she's a driver that races in the BTCC more because of her money and not her talent but she isn't THAT bad.

Although I was disappointed at Mondello year before last when Pickford came up behind her and she just let him through. I'd have thought she'd have been better of at least defending her position even if her car was slower.

I'm all for female drivers coming through the ranks but I wouldn't mind either way if she came back.

[Jerry Zedman]

jason hughes run buy wsr ( 2 guys from wsr helped his team )

Ermm, what WSR crew? The Kartworld ZS engine was similar to those used by WSR (ex race engine) but was the first of the K2000's that were produced and unlike the WSR engines, it was not stripped down after each meet, cleaned/repaired, etc and rebuilt. The assistance was from Judd who actually made the engine in the first place!!!! Judd would offer assistance on the engine regardless of who was running it as they kne best! If parts did break and they had no spares, then Jason's mechanics would ask WSR to borrow some, just like Mike Jordan borrowed some parts at Mondello Park from TD which assisted him in winning his first ever BTCC race - fact! Ocassionally you would find a WSR mechanic in the Kartworld garage helping them re-install an engine, for example, as they had more experience!!!! WSR did not run Kartworld's car - fact!


fiona leggate 4 or 5 year old car runing bio fuel

Jason Hughes' car was just as old - being an old Atomic Kitten car from 2002! And yes, you would see the ocassional support from the VX crew helping out too - like WSR helping Kartworld - as the car used to be one of theirs, they know more about how to sort problems/issues out with it than anyone! That is how the pits/paddock works and that is how we get so many independents running! If it was left to just them all the time I'm sure you wouldn't see half the cars from the indys on the track!

I like Fiona as a person and as a driver, but, she did certainly have her moments last year. Maybe she couldn't get the mechanics to set the car up to suit her style of driving? Mechanics fault or her fault? Possibly a combination of the two? How many times did she get the car facing the wrong way in both qualifying and in the race? Compare this to the number of time Paul did in his two meetings. If Fiona works harder on her driving (like Danika has in IRL) and gets a drive and performs well, then great, I'm all for it!

[CharlieJ]

I'm going to be repeating myself here, but here goes anyway.....

Fiona showed a lot of spirit battling with the other back markers, and showed pretty decent overtaking and defending ability when the occasions arose.

Paul looked much more at home in the car, and definitely seemed to get more out of it.

What Fiona really needs is to work alongside a more experienced BTCC driver so that she can learn how to set the car up, and how to get the best out of it.

Good luck to her, I say.

[Jonathan McLeod]

What Fiona needs is the experience of racing people in the Clios and/or SEATs in indentical cars - so she can learn about driving/racing and compete in equal machinery to prove herself.

[FlashGordon]

Why are you so insistant she learns from second best? As I have said before she treid her best in very outdated machinery. Give her some credit for trying. Oh and cut her some slack she is a good driver that was in a bad car.

[Jonathan McLeod]

Because thats where she belongs. The top SEAT and Clio drivers are good enough to be in the BTCC. Fiona hasn't learnt much from being in the BTCC the last two year. She is no nearer the pace now than she was after a few meetings.

[mattlovestbs]

I'm going to be repeating myself here, but here goes anyway.....

Fiona showed a lot of spirit battling with the other back markers, and showed pretty decent overtaking and defending ability when the occasions arose.

Paul looked much more at home in the car, and definitely seemed to get more out of it.

What Fiona really needs is to work alongside a more experienced BTCC driver so that she can learn how to set the car up, and how to get the best out of it.

Good luck to her, I say.

take the 2005 races she was in - she was normally battling with Mark Proctor and the 2 Lexus guys, and was normally ahead of them, which meant being close to the points. maybe its the field size that means she scored less points??

she has the ability to be quick, and maybe with an experienced racer (Matt Neal, Jason Plato etc), she's get some much needed tips on how to get the most out the car.

only a thought

[Dave]

I do think Jonathon has a point. :)

Fiona seems to be a also ran - she gets her seat in the touring car because sponsors like the woman driver for marketing.

Fair comments re: clio's but whats more important? Having a woman race in Britains top series even if she isnt at the front or being in the clio's with a point to prove??

[Reidy_fan]

if Fiona has the budget to race in BTCC then why shouldnt she, it is her money after all, just as Gavin Smith has bought his VXR seat for the last 2 years the BTCC is money first and talent 2nd and that is the way it will always be that is why we have more talented drivers like Mat Jackson, Jonathan Adam, Ed Pead, Paul Rivett etc etc etc in lower series becaue of lacking in ££££ and any of the above 4 put in a competitive car will score more points than the rich diddie (sorry daddy) drivers

[Jonathan McLeod]

There's no disputing she can if she wants to. I'm not arguing that. What I'm saying is she would be better on in a one-make series to gain experience against similar drivers and then return.

[adet406]

There's no disputing she can if she wants to. I'm not arguing that. What I'm saying is she would be better on in a one-make series to gain experience against similar drivers and then return.


well i say her driver coach might beg to differ there he is one of the best we have seen around for a few years :cool:

[tdb]

unlike the WSR engines, it was not stripped down after each meet, cleaned/repaired, etc and rebuilt.

So are you telling us that WSR were breaking the rules?

Engines are sealed and the rules impose restrictions on the number of rebuilds.