OMG-Noooo!

[MG-ZS EX260]

i am more of a GT fan at heart and love the british Gt championship more than any other race series, and 2 weeks ago a person i know who is in the championship this year told me chamberlain were running a viper, and i was well happy,and he said there wuldbe '2 women drivers; and today ive just found out it is Amanda Stretton and Aninie Templeton! no disrespect to her or offence, its just she wasnt exactly quick in the BTCC and its a huge jump from BTCC-P to GT's, imagine her in a viper! we'll see at donnington in a week in a half anyway. Best of luck.

[Reynard]

Not so sure about Amanda Stretton after her pushy antics with the reporter's microphone in last year's ASCAR, but Annie Templeton is a good egg.

Annie's main racing interests is in racing historic MGs so given the fact that she is well used to driving a car with euhm, not a lot of grip, I think she'll take to the Viper like a duck to water.

BTCC was only a bit of fun as far as Annie is concerned...

[MG-ZS EX260]

Originally posted by Reynard
Not so sure about Amanda Stretton after her pushy antics with
Annie's main racing interests is in racing historic MGs so given the fact that she is well used to driving a car with euhm, not a lot of grip, I think she'll take to the Viper like a duck to water.



DONT SLAG OF VIPERS!!!! lol, i love them, i worship them, the are by far my favourite car ever, they have plenty of grip, unless the driver gives it to much right foot, i will never forget having a ride in a viper, they are amazing.

[Les]

well done Annie - she will do fine in that

[Amanda]

Well done Annie!

I will have to check my motorsport spreadsheet and see if I can get along to a meeting now.

[MG-ZS EX260]

its sure going to be interesting, try andcome along to donington, 5/6 april, i cant wait!

[Claire]

Good luck to Annie, I also read that Vicky Butler-Henderson was going to some of the rounds with them as well. Go girls and show all those men what for!! ;)

[Vicky]

Well said Claire.

Girl power!!!!!

[John]

Notice all the lads are too scared to say anything?! ;) So I'll have to absolutely make sure I dont make any comments at all about women drivers...... DOH too late!! ;) :p

And I'll not say anything about the fact they'd better stock up on spare body panels as that'd be just rude! :D

Only kidding!! :)

[Alan]

Listen up guys out there - this is serious.

Annie wins races in pre-war MG's - no seatbelts!!!!

Amanda Stretton drove ASCAR in 2001 (not in 2002 for increasingly obvious reasons). Respect for anyone, male or female who drives them.

VBH - well we all know she is slightly bonkers.

If these ladies get together and the girls above (Amanda, Claire, Reynard, Vicky and Les - Ann will be along soon) start supporting them there will be some serious stuff going on.

I tell you chaps - be warned!!!:eek: :eek:

[Reynard]

Err, indeed. I am the one with the sabres, BTW. ;)

I respect anyone who drives an ASCAR quickly - for those of you who were at Rockingham with me last year, you all knew how jumpy I got watching my favourite man. 170 mph inches from a wall takes a lot of balls...

Honestly, despite the fact that I find Amanda Stretton just a tad annoying, I still think that Annie and the gang will certainly show a few of the guys up.

[Alan]

Jumpy - you Reynard - nah!!!!:D

Do not under any circumstances bring aforementioned Sabres to any races - don't want them falling into the wrong hands do we?

I would really like to see Paula Sears drive one of these cars. She is one of the most impressive women drivers I have seen - remember her driving those Vectras?

[Amanda]

Reynard ~ please bring your sabres, they could be very useful!:D

As Vicky says ~ Girl Power!!!! I think the girls will show the boys a thing or two about racing.

I might have to try and get to Donington for the race!

[MG-ZS EX260]

now its CONFIRMED, the viper was present at the GT media day at silverstone, with annie and amanda avalible to drive apparently, haven heard anything other than that as yet, but m gonna sure be cheering it on, this could turn annie into a star! or make CMS unhappy with ll the body panels and repairs! I wish her the best of luck and we'll see at donington.

[Stuart]

I've seen Annie race the pre-war MG and boy can she drive.
It'll be great to see a Viper out in the GT series again this year. As MG ZS says, they are an awesome car to watch - and jeez am I jealous that you've had a ride in one!

Good luck ladies.

[MG-ZS EX260]

i no! it took me a week to get over it, it wasnt much of a ride, about 15mins but its just unbelieveably quick, he put it in 3rd at about 30moh and then flawedit for about 5 econds, i almost sh!t myself, BTW i luv ur avatar, great great car and great driver behind the wheel (BS)

[Ann]

Originally posted by Alan
Listen up guys out there - this is serious. If these ladies get together and the girls above (Amanda, Claire, Reynard, Vicky and Les - Ann will be along soon) start supporting them there will be some serious stuff going on. I tell you chaps - be warned!!!:eek: :eek:

Did someone call me?!! :p

I think this is great news - well done Annie.

:D Girl Power!! :D

[Les]

well it looks like Donington next weekend then and see the girls in action. :)

[MG-ZS EX260]

i cant wait, if anyone wants to see a picture of the viper in it's 'girl power' livery pm me. I've been given tickets aswell for saturday and sunday!

[Reynard]

Originally posted by Alan
Jumpy - you Reynard - nah!!!!:D

Hah, you mean to say you didn't notice? :eek: I was all over the place - why do you think I hide behind a camera muttering curses and giving the opposition the evil eye? (didn't always work, unfortunately, and nor did my satyrical swipes afterwards... :( )

Anyways, I'll see the girls in the Viper at Snetterton on Easter weekend. Unlike most people there though, I'll actually be working... Should be a good meet though, but I bet it rains. Usually does at Snett.

[lauz]

i hope that they do well. i hope that annie will do well especially since the car is much more powerful than the peugeot that she is used to driving.

[Les]

well she is not overawed by it at all. It's a bit of a beast and with so much power you can swap ends very very easily.

Car looks really smart

[Alan]

Just got round to reading the results from Snetterton and it appears that Annie and Amanda finished 7th.

WELL DONE LADIES!!!!!:D

Onwards and upwards - all doubters please note.

[Reynard]

Heh, yeah! I got some good photos of the GTs that weekend as I was on a press pass at Snetterton.

Have attached a shot I took of the girls' Viper during Saturday free practice - enjoy :D

P.S. I used my nice new Canon 100-400L IS to get that shot. Sharp, huh? :)

[Les]

Well I heard last week that my friends Golf Mark IV has been passed for Knockhill so flights have been booked and Scotland here I come.
It should do well on the twisty circuit and with 2 short races. The car really did well at Brands last week and looks great.
So here's wishing Steve Wood and Stuart Scott the best of luck and they might just give Annie a race (a bit like old times)

[Reynard]

Somehow I don't think that a Mk IV Golf is in the spirit of the regulations.

Shouldn't a GT race be for GT cars?

I reckon these so-called hot-hatches (and that includes the Sharpe-Mucci Renault that was at Snetterton) should stay out of GT racing and be put back in saloon championships where they belong.

A Mk IV Golf just doesn't have the same evocative pulling power as say a Porsche 911, TVR Cerbera/Tuscan, Lotus Exige, Mosler, Saleen, Marcos Mantara etc.

I think the introductions of saloons to GT racing is a mockery. Small wonder most of the established guys have switched to the FIA series...

[Alan]

Can't help thinking I agree with you Reynard, and I seem to recall seeing that someone is trying to enter a Mini.

Now I know you like your Mini's Reynard so what do you think to that!

[Les]

well I found out today that another friend is racing at Knockhill so it is going to be a very special meeting for me.

From the front the Golf looks the business but it needs a big wing on the back to look a bit more sporty. But what do I care - I love it and can't wait to see it in action.

[Racefan_uk]

Originally posted by Reynard

I think the introductions of saloons to GT racing is a mockery. Small wonder most of the established guys have switched to the FIA series...

However, I do have to point out that all of the 'established' racers that were in the series last season (and for the years before that) left to go to the FIA Championship before the new regs were even put into place! So, the different cars that have appeared are not the reason why people left the GT's. It's because they moved upwards to another series, has nothing to do with Clio's and VW's on the grid.

Some of the top FIA GT drivers races in the Belgian Belcar series and they have all sorts of machinery in there.

Give the British GT's time, they will have a decent grid by mid season and the racing has been sharp from the last two rounds anyway. And Knockhill should suit the TVR Tuscan's more than the Mosler's so it should be a cracking race.

Les: Who is the other friend you are going to watch?

[MG-ZS EX260]

racefan, totally agree about giving the GT's chance, its what ive been saying but no one listerns

BUT now, i am a big annie templeton fan! i spoke to her at donnington and had a chat to amanda stretton, there so nice, it was hillarious hearing annie talk about her favourite little 306! god she hated that car! Theyve done a cracking job for chamberlain race tech and girlpower racing, hope theyre dream of le mans will come true in 2004. GOOD LUCK annie and amanda

[Reynard]

Originally posted by Alan
Can't help thinking I agree with you Reynard, and I seem to recall seeing that someone is trying to enter a Mini.

Now I know you like your Mini's Reynard so what do you think to that!

I love my Mini racing (as well as driving my own Min) as Alan says, but I think that Minis should stick to what they do best - Miglias and Se7ens.

Sorry Les, but I donÃ*t care if it looks the part. A VW Golf sure as hell isnÃ*t a GT car... (Belcars are essentially silhouettes rather than based on a distinct chassis type)

By which I mean that a car competing in this kind of championship should be a sports car or grand touring car from the outset, designed with a sporting, performance and/or touring purpose in mind ñ not adapted to that purpose through the addition of performance-enhancing components to a typical production saloon. The definition of a grand touring car is essentially the following ñ ìa two-seater vehicle powered by an engine that is capable of sustaining high speed cruising over long distancesî, while the definition of a sports car amounts to ìa vehicle that has been built to attain the maximum performance out of the engine and the best handling out of the chassis for the sole purpose to drive quicklyî.

Sometimes these two definitions mean the same thing ñ the Porsche 911 is both a grand touring car and a sports car. On the other hand, a Jaguar XK8 is a pure GT car, whereas a Lotus Exige is a sports car. But all of these match the ideals of what we would expect to see in this kind of championship. If we look at the entries in the British GT championship over the last few seasons, we have an impressive lineup of sports and grand touring cars:

Porsche 911 GT2, 911 GT3R, 911 GT3RS & 911 Cup
TVR Cerbera Speed 12, Cerbera Speed 6 & Tuscan R
Marcos Mantara / LM 600 & Mantis
Lotus Esprit & Exige
Lister Storm
Jaguar XK8
Dodge Viper GT / GTO
Chevrolet Corvette
Ultima GTR
Saleen SR7
Quaife RS4
Stealth B6
Mosler MT900
Ferrari 360 Modena
Morgan Aero 8

A Mk IV Golf in amongst this lot is just a joke. :mad: It certainly by definition isnÃ*t a GT car and no amount of wings and performance parts will make it into one.

Needless to say, Annie & Amanda have the right sort of car at least :D

[Alan]

So does anyone know what is and is not allowed in GT's? Could one now enter a BTCC Astra for example?

There must be some sort of limit or are they really desperate for entries (no offence to Les' friends of course - good luck to them).

[Les]

Originally posted by Reynard
The definition of a grand touring car is essentially the following ñ ìa two-seater vehicle powered by an engine that is capable of sustaining high speed cruising over long distancesî, while the definition of a sports car amounts to ìa vehicle that has been built to attain the maximum performance out of the engine and the best handling out of the chassis for the sole purpose to drive quicklyî.

excuse me but this golf will be taking part in a 9 hour race this year at speed, it can have 2 seats easily unlike a lot of GTs so I am sorry but your definition just does not stand up!

[Alan]

I think you are missing the point of Reynards argument Les.

When all said and done the VW Golf is a family saloon and no amount of bodykit and removing of seats is ever (in my and Reynards opinions of course) going to make it a true GT car. This Golf may well be competitive speed wise, but GT purists (not that I am one of them) will not, I would venture to suggest, accept it as a true GT car.

For whatever reason though they have been allowed to enter and I wish them all the best. Certainly they should have a good chance at Knockhill which should suit the car better than some of the high speed circuits. Hope you have a good weekend up there - hope the weather is good for you (mind you - a wet Knockhill may suit the car even better).

I note that the Wilhire 24 hour race is back next year at Silverstone and from the looks of it the Golf would be ideal - do your friends intend entering Les (or maybe that question is a bit too soon!!:) ). Now that is a weekend I am looking forward to, Le Mans on my doorstep - well, sort of!!:D

[Les]

the way they talk it could be Le Mans, Willhire, Bathurst or Daytona - you just never know but as long as I get put in with the luggage I don't mind ;)

and I did get his point - I just didn't agree with it.

We had the same arguments when the touring car regs came in and it will no dubitdly come up again and again but when cash is tight and grids are small. the regs get more lenient.

[Reynard]

Originally posted by Les
We had the same arguments when the touring car regs came in and it will no dubitdly come up again and again but when cash is tight and grids are small. the regs get more lenient.

Sorry Les, but a tin top is always a tin top, regualtions aside. Don't forget that in the mid to late 1980s we had everything in a BTCC race from a Ford Cosworth right through to a Suzuki Swift - but when it boils down to putting a lable on them, they were all saloon cars and everyone agreed with that they all had a place in the BTCC despite the huge variety of different machinery on offer.

But GTs are a different breed and have a completely separate ethos to saloons. Competitiveness has nothing to do with this, but the whole understanding of what makes a sportscar does. While your converted Golf may be quick, no amount of blustering nor cosmetic additions will make anyone believe that it can be considered to be a GT car rather than a saloon with delusions of grandeur. It is trying to be something that it is not and that is what's wrong.

No-one argues against putting Sports Prototypes (Gp C or LMP) in with GT cars because the basic idea of sportscar / GT car i.e. speed, performance and endurance can be applied to both of them - the difference is in the production run and the degree of developement. But put a saloon car in among Audi R8s, Bentleys, Panozs, Ferrari 550 Maranellos, Porsche 911 GT3Rs at say Sebring, Le Mans or any of the other endurance classics and people would think that you are certifiable. While the LETTER of the law says that it is legal, it just doesn't ring right.

I *AM* a GT purist and so are quite a few of us esteemed (!?) members of the press corps. To be brutally honest, when we saw the Clio V6 entered in the GT race at Snetterton, we just pointed at it and laughed because it just looked so out of place. As did quite a few members of the paying public. I overheard people complaining that they paid good money to see proper GT cars not a Clio that's escaped from the TOCA package.

Because that's what it was. And it makes a mockery of what a GT race should be all about - as does this Golf. :mad:

[redshoes]

For the most part I have to agree with Reynard. GT rules say it has to be a closed car with no more than one door per side and no more than four seats so in theory it fits (although isn't the Golf a FIVE seater?), but no way does it fit the spirit fo the regulations.

The Clio I can just about accept. Despite Reynards comments about it escaping from the TOCA package, the 2-door 2-seater V6 is a world away from the 172 Cup car and for my money far more justified with a sportscar/GT tag.

EERC, Willhire, N-Ring 24hrs - perfect for the Golf. Le Mans 24hr - ROFL, not a hope of being accepted by the ACO.

In answer to Alan's question, you could build a GT version of the Astra Coupe but not use a BTCC car. There's far too many non-standard, non-roadcar derived parts to be legal.

[Stuart]

Like Reynard I am purist, and a big GT fan. I think that it is a real shame that the championship has opened up to the likes of a Renault Clio and a Mini. This is a championship whose foundations lie with supercars like the Jaguar XJ220, Mclaren F1, Ferrari F40, and in the "baby" class Porsche GT2 and
Marcos LM600.
The idea of making the championship more affordable by cutting out the defunct GT1 class was a smart move, leaving a top class still brimming with exotic cars like the Dodge Viper and Lister Storm. The GTO class fitted just right with the Porsche GT3 and TVR Tuscans - again cars that many of us can only dream of racing.
When the Mclaren F1 longtail debuted we all stood at Silverstone drooling - absolutley gobsmacked by its beauty and crushing performance.
When the championship allowed "shopping cars" onto the grid, we....umm...didn't...
Sorry, but I want my GTs to remind me of Holly Vallance and not ASDA car park.

As a foot note, I was at Silverstone in 1997 for the FIA GT race. I joked to my brother that technically we could enter his Fiat Cinqucento as it was a 2 door 2+2... seems kind of ironic now...

[Reynard]

Jaguar XJ220.... *sigh*

I can agree with removing the GT1 cars from the British series, glorious though they were, as the expense of running them was becoming prohibitive. But it was glorious while it lasted.

The mix of GT (GT2) & GTO (GT3) was absolutely perfect, and the racing in 2000 & 2001 was probably the best in terms of quality and competitiveness in both classes, and even among cars from different classes. It was two seasons of great cars and great drivers and it is a shame that the series has declined somewhat since.

Putting what are essentially production cars into the series I think is a big mistake.

Mind you, that was one of the issues with the BMW GTR car, wasn't it? Although it applied the letter of the law, it wasn't in the spirit of GT regs which is why it was never allowed in the FIA series. It was also later banned from ALMS despite the fact that it was well on par with the Porsche 911 GT3s - though not strictly for that reason alone.

I still think this is a grey area in the rules of GT racing - there should be stricter guidelines as to what constitutes a GT car to stop production (saloon) cars from being included in a series for sportscars. In that respect, I think that the BRDC are making a big mistake in opening the British series to tin tops in order to increase grid sizes.

The British championship needs quality right now, more than anything else.

[Les]

well just to spice it up a bit more.... Steve and Stuart went testing at Silverstone today alongside the mosler.

They beat it in the wet!


so am I praying for rain next weekend or what?

and they make a little bit of history - first ever front-wheel drive GT.

[turbowomble]

But that's exactly it, Les. It's front-wheel drive. A Grand Tourer shouldn't be FWD. Okay, it's within the letter of the law but it's not within the spirit. It just doesn't seem right to me.

Oh, give me the days of Group C or the BPR series. Proper GT racing cars.

[Reynard]

Originally posted by turbowomble
But that's exactly it, Les. It's front-wheel drive. A Grand Tourer shouldn't be FWD. Okay, it's within the letter of the law but it's not within the spirit. It just doesn't seem right to me.
I agree completely with that statement. Front wheel drive on a GT car? Eeeeeeeeeeeeew...

The classic GT car should be rear wheel drive at any rate, although the 4WD Quaife that appeared in the BGT in 2001 is acceptable too. That was a nice car with some innovative engineering - shame it never got the development it needed.

Les: looks like you're being seriously outnumbered in the debate as to whether the Golf should be allowed in the British GT series. At the moment it is one for and six against which in my book is pretty comprehensive.

The general opinion here is that a Mk IV Golf is NOT a GT car.

[Les]

one thing - I have never actually said whether <I> think it should be in there or not, but for the team it is a great honour to be actually asked to go in it.

Now all I need is for the production regs to be changed so it can go in the BTCC - lovely.

[MG-ZS EX260]

My stance is: That is a 1.8ltr FWD car, not a GT (grand tourig car) its a touring car, and should not be allowed in the british GT's, i am happy as its anoher car on the grid, but it not i the spirit of the 'GT' CHampionship, i mean what next a ****** smart car and a corsa! But good luck to the team.