Is there no pit walkabout on May 5th Brands Hatch

[McKay]

?
It says on the timetable : BTCC pit opens, but i dont think thats it. so is there none being a support race to the champ cars?

[MG-ZS EX260]

hi, i dont think theyre is, bu with the CART's having the pit garages, the toca cars ill have there garages behind te pits, so they will probably do an autograph sesson. But as far as i no no pit walk about

[Craig Antill]

No pits walkabout, no autograph session (at least not in the paddock unless you have purchased a rip-off transfer ticket) and, from a glance at the timetable circulated to the teams, it would appear no drivers parade either... :(

[Paul Rayner]

I checked the new Brands timetable the other day. It's a bit different to the original one released, isn't it? Don't suppose anyone's still got a copy of that?

It's annoying when they say things like the driver parade will happen, then they get cancelled, when many people have already booked their tickets. There might be a perfectly good reason for it, but it's not exactly ideal when they do things like this.

[Peter]

It seems that whatever happens, people will never be happy. lthough it is a shame that there is no autograph session, you can't have everything.

With a two hour Champ Car race, the proceedings prior to that and the morning warm up, there simply are not enough hours in the day to include a drivers' parade and a BTCC autograph session- remember due to legal reasons, the event has to conclude by 1830.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Craig Antill
a rip-off transfer ticket)

That's not fair. Although the BTCC transfer tickets are quite expensive. This is to encourage people not to overcrowd the paddock- for safety reasons.

[Les]

I still agree with Craig (is that a first?) -
keeping numbers down in the paddock is achieved by issueing a set number of tickets and has nothing to do with the price charged!

[The Stig]

It is disappointing, but with 50,000 apparently expected you can perhaps understand the reasoning. This event is somewhat different to normal with ChampCars headlining. BTCC does return later in the year to Brands where I'm sure prices and spectator access will revert.

[cos]

I got round to booking my tickets yesterday, and I'm looking forward to the meeting already. We've got to remember that this is primarily a CART meeting and the BTCC is just a support race, so most of the weekend is devoted to CART.

Will the BTCC be in the outer paddock (behind paddock hill bend) for the meeting?

And why have the organisers put the Porsches on Monday race day - I'd much rather see 20+ Clios scrapping round the track than only 8 Porsches :(

[Les]

There will be more than 8 - Richard Marsh and a few others will be there and I think that Aaron Slight will be in a car though whether he will be at Brands or another round I don't know.

[cos]

Nice to see Slight back... I thought he was going to do V8s this year. Still, I'd prefer see Clios or FFord rather than Porsches for my £40... (why doesn't the world revolve around me dammit! ;) )

[Paul Rayner]

Originally posted by Peter
That's not fair. Although the BTCC transfer tickets are quite expensive. This is to encourage people not to overcrowd the paddock- for safety reasons.
Sorry, I disagree. Whoever's fault it is, I think that £10 + £15 to get into the support paddock is just wrong, as it's free for exactly the same thing at other circuits. Fair enough for the Champ Car paddock, but not for the supports. If they had to limit numbers to the support paddock they could have just limited free tickets.

As for the Porsches - there'll be about 12 of them going round, probably naff racing, but it's probably all down to politics. When the BTCC got a support slot, both Porsche and Renault will have said "we want a race day race!" Renault naturally have their single-seater championship on race day as their drivers aspire to Champ-Car type racing, so Clios gets put on Sunday, and Porsches... well, at least it's the first race, so if you're stuck in a traffic jam you won't be missing Clios.

[Paul Rayner]

Originally posted by cos
Will the BTCC be in the outer paddock (behind paddock hill bend) for the meeting?
Yes they will.

[touring fan]

It's not very nice to have the BTCC being pushed out so much. It started as a joint meeting and it's become more and more about CART and less about the BTCC like it's getting in the way.
Anybody else a bit confused as to why we're all going to KENT for the "london champ car trophy"?

[Craig Antill]

I don't think it ever was a joint meeting though, was it? Politics deemed it necessary to promote it as such though and that is where the current disatisfaction has arisen.

[The Stig]

Not particularly fussed by Champcars - would still go if it was only a normal Touring week-end. As it happens suspect it's going to be a real pain getting in and out. It's only 90 minutes from home but I'll have to double that queueing etc. Don't entirely agree with the BTCC being relegated at one of it's "own" circuits. BTCC has supported Brands for yonks and it's not right being an afterthought. Didn't realise it was a joint thing. All the blurb I've read or seen has London Champ Car Trophy. Even my ****** tickets. Hope it's the first and last time my favourite Touring Car weekend is relegated

[Racefan_uk]

Originally posted by touring fan
It's not very nice to have the BTCC being pushed out so much. It started as a joint meeting and it's become more and more about CART and less about the BTCC like it's getting in the way.
Anybody else a bit confused as to why we're all going to KENT for the "london champ car trophy"?


How can you have been so naive to think that the BTCC would be anything other than a support package to the Champ Cars???

The Champ Cars are a WORLD championship, the BTCC is just a National series, not even in the same league. None of you can surely be surprised that the Touring Car teams are placed in the outer paddock and not in the pit-lane. You've had it easy for the last few years if you are! ;) :p

And as for it being the London Champ Car Trophy, well, it's a good marketing line for the Yanks, don't you think? Besides, I wouldn't think the majority of the TV watching Champ Car fans back in the US would know where Brands Hatch is, London is geographically easier to work out over there, I would think.
:rolleyes:

[The Stig]

World Championship in the same way the NFL, NBA and the Baseball World Series are you mean? You also forgot to mention the World Championship University Boat Race in which case.

[Alan]

Nothing against Americans but the race could have been at Knockhill and it could still have been called the London Champ car Trophy!!!

As for the BTCC being a support race - well I guess this was going to happen, but I can't say I agree with it. I did the Champ car race at Rockingham last year (because ASCAR was the support) and I can't say I was impressed. Worth seeing for the experience though and I am hoping the race will be better around Brands.

From the timetable there does appear to be a disproportionate amount of practise for the Champ cars. Is it that difficult a circuit to learn?

[The Stig]

Clearly Alan!! Notwithstanding we'll have 90 minutes under yellow flags at about 95mph being thrilled by a long line of cars. Somewhat like the journey home although considerably slower. Might Brands International circuit have been better for this meeting ?

[Peter]

The London Champ Car Trophy is all part of Chris Pook's strategy of ''bringing the racing to the fans.'' It is what has been done in Denver, Miami, St. Petersburg and so on. The only difference is the track is some 15 miles out of town. As has already been stated, it is good marketing to get the word London into the title of the race, as CART can now add it to those markets listed earlier.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Alan
Nothing against Americans but the race could have been at Knockhill and it could still have been called the London Champ car Trophy!!!

As for the BTCC being a support race - well I guess this was going to happen, but I can't say I agree with it. I did the Champ car race at Rockingham last year (because ASCAR was the support) and I can't say I was impressed. Worth seeing for the experience though and I am hoping the race will be better around Brands.

From the timetable there does appear to be a disproportionate amount of practise for the Champ cars. Is it that difficult a circuit to learn?

Did you go to the Rockingham 500 in 2001? That was a blast. I spoke to some frinds over in the States who saw last year's race on television, and they were disappointed too. I think it was let down by a poor wing package and traction control. Fortunately the latter is now banned for this year.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'disproportionate amount of practise.' The amount of on track time is standard for any Champ Car event.

[Alan]

I didn't get to 2001 Peter, I am hoping last year was the exception!! If they were not so loud I could easily have fallen asleep last year - well, maybe that is an exaggeration but you get my drift!!

Re the practise I was just looking at the timetable and there did seem to be alot of practise time for them - but if that is what they normally have then that is fine!! I thought they were having more because it was a new circuit to them perhaps.

I hope the tv coverage is up to scratch this year as I seem to recall it was not very good last year. Is it on Motors TV live?

[Peter]

The race will be shown live on Eurosport.

[Paul Rayner]

Originally posted by The Stig
World Championship in the same way the NFL, NBA and the Baseball World Series are you mean?

NFL - NATIONAL (ie American) Football league - Nothing about a world series there.
NBA - NATIONAL (ie American) Basketball Association - Nothing about a world series there.
Baseball World Series - Fair enough.

You can't say Champ Cars isn't an international series. It now visits Canada, the USA, Mexico, Australia, the UK and Germany. It might be concentrated in North America, but it's still a high-profile international series.

Anyone who thinks the British Touring Car Championship (as the title says it's a NATIONAL series) should be on equal billing is just biased towards the BTCC. It's a great series but, with special ticket offers, only about 18,000 people were at Brands last year (if I remember the figure correctly), and yet at Champ Cars there are expected to be 50,000.

In supporting Champ Cars, and taking all the crap they have to put up with as a result in terms of less space and time, TOCA is trying to gain back a big meeting of the year, like they used to get as a support race at the British grand prix.

[The Stig]

Do you reckon the London Champcar Trophy meeting will become an annual event at Brands. if so maybe in a couple of years time they might earn top billing. And is Champcar a bit compelled to look for a market further afield because of the domestic (US) IRL and NASCAR.

The NBA/NFL analogy was loosely based on the fact if you believe many American commentators these are World championships. Apologies to all for the facetious boat race swipe, just having a rant because I wasn't aware Brands was a joint promotion hijacked a bit by the CART crew. (prices/accessibility etc).

[tvgod]

Originally posted by Paul Rayner
It's a great series but, with special ticket offers, only about 18,000 people were at Brands last year (if I remember the figure correctly), and yet at Champ Cars there are expected to be 50,000.


Last year at Brands there were about 18,000 on race day - and fewer obviously on qualifying day.

If the figures I've heard for advance ticket sales for Champ Cars are accurate, then there won't be 50,000 people at Brands Hatch on Monday...or anywhere close.

...In 1978, there was an Indycar race at Brands. They expected 20,000 and got 12,000.

Assuming the high ticket prices haven't put off too many of the 18,000 who went to BTCC last year, I'd expect them to better that figure.

But looking at the weather forecast (wet on Sunday, wetter on Monday) it's obvious that the impulse visitors are going to stay away.

[Amanda]

I would be very surprised if there are 50,000 people at Brands on Monday!

If the crowd at Rockingham last year is anything to go by I would say they would be lucky to get 30,000.

[Reynard]

Originally posted by Amanda
If the crowd at Rockingham last year is anything to go by I would say they would be lucky to get 30,000.

Yep - but it was cold at Rockingham and most people went home after the ASCAR finished...

I can't ever remember watching motor racing and being so underwhelmed... CART even smells wrong - a bit like the student union on a Friday night! Anyway, it was the first meeting that I have left before the racing finished.

[Les]

just a warning but brands told a friend of mine that paddock transfes do not include the Champ car paddock - just the 'unimportant ones' (changed from a couple of weeks ago)
There was also a lot of confusion as to where you could go without a paddock pass - no Hailwoods, some carparks out of bounds, some parts of the track - sounds a right mess.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Reynard
Yep - but it was cold at Rockingham and most people went home after the ASCAR finished...

I can't ever remember watching motor racing and being so underwhelmed... CART even smells wrong - a bit like the student union on a Friday night! Anyway, it was the first meeting that I have left before the racing finished.

Personally I really like the smell of Champ Cars- methanol fuel.

However, you will be pleased to know that as of 2005, it is intended that the series will adopt Gasoline engines.

[Peter]

Originally posted by tvgod
Last year at Brands there were about 18,000 on race day - and fewer obviously on qualifying day.

If the figures I've heard for advance ticket sales for Champ Cars are accurate, then there won't be 50,000 people at Brands Hatch on Monday...or anywhere close.

...In 1978, there was an Indycar race at Brands. They expected 20,000 and got 12,000.

Assuming the high ticket prices haven't put off too many of the 18,000 who went to BTCC last year, I'd expect them to better that figure.

But looking at the weather forecast (wet on Sunday, wetter on Monday) it's obvious that the impulse visitors are going to stay away.

It is a little unfair to compare 1978 with 2003. People were less informed of the racing happenings, as there was no internet or Eurosport. However, nowadays, people are able to follow the series from St. Petes to Fontana, as it happens.

By the way, what do you understand the ticket sales to be?

[Peter]

Originally posted by The Stig
I wasn't aware Brands was a joint promotion hijacked a bit by the CART crew. (prices/accessibility etc).

That is very unfair and untrue.

The spectacle of a major international racing series, in addition to a full day of Toca Tour, is very generously priced. Please remember that the circuit choose the price, and they have to pay CART's sanctioning fee.

The passes for the CART paddock are reasonably priced and offer a superb chance to meet all the drivers and legendary team owners. Oh, did I say that Villeneuve, Montoya and da Matta will be strolling around on race day?

Talking of F1, it will cost over £100 to attend Sunday at the British Grand Prix, in which you will see a considerably less spectacular motor race, no warm up and just two support races. To even walk within 100 metres of the drivers listed earlier, you would have to remortgage your house.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Amanda
I would be very surprised if there are 50,000 people at Brands on Monday!

If the crowd at Rockingham last year is anything to go by I would say they would be lucky to get 30,000.

You are absolutely right not to expect 50,000 on Monday. I don't know who predicted that. Chris Pook said he would be delighted with an attendance of between 30,000 and 35,000.

However, I think it is a bit tough not to expect 30,000. I would expect CART to attract well over an extra 15,000 to the normal 20,000 for just BTCC.

Although only a small number were present for last year's race- 40,000 attended the 2001 event, partly because it was an inaugual event, which The London Champ Car Trophy will also be.

The majority of people do not understand open wheel oval racing, and I sense that you may have found it difficult to follow who was on which lap. This also influenced the decision to move to a road course.

The television deal was poor last year, which I think I explained earlier in the thread, thus many people gave up on CART, knew little about the series, and I feel that many could not face a long journey to Rockingham, to watch a series, which they knew little about and struggled to understand. Hopefully, this has all been rectified.

[Racefan_uk]

Originally posted by Peter


Oh, did I say that Villeneuve, Montoya and da Matta will be strolling around on race day?



If they are I think there will be some VERY upset F1 fans over in Barcelona! Seeing as how the next round of the F1 World Championship takes place this weekend too!

Or am I missing something? :confused: :D

[Racefan_uk]

Originally posted by Les
just a warning but brands told a friend of mine that paddock transfes do not include the Champ car paddock - just the 'unimportant ones' (changed from a couple of weeks ago)
There was also a lot of confusion as to where you could go without a paddock pass - no Hailwoods, some carparks out of bounds, some parts of the track - sounds a right mess.

Sounds about right for a Brands Hatch promoted event then!
Why did the Champ Cars ever leave a purpose built place like Rockingham to go to Brands?
I just hope the hopelessly small pit-lane at Brands will be a safe enough place to be during the race. At least at Rockingham they have plenty of space!
:rolleyes:

[Peter]

Originally posted by Racefan_uk
If they are I think there will be some VERY upset F1 fans over in Barcelona! Seeing as how the next round of the F1 World Championship takes place this weekend too!

Or am I missing something? :confused: :D

The Grand Prix is on the Sunday, the Brands race takes place on Monday. Thus they will jet back for the LCCT.

[The Stig]

Just read all of the above well informed threads, particularly yours Peter, and am still not convinced Brands Indy is the right place for this event. I expect loads of yellow flag periods and not certain the short track, just 1.2 miles, on a possible wet day, will lend itself to an exciting spectacle. How big will the CART field be ?

[Peter]

Originally posted by The Stig
How big will the CART field be ?

19 cars.

[Alan]

I can't help getting the feeling that the TOCA package is being overshadowed by CART. Take this weeks supplement with Autosport - 35 pages, on page 33 there is a section entitled "the others"!!! - you can guess what is covered there.

As a TOCA Tour supporter I am going this weekend, but with some misgivings - as I also went to Rockingham last year to see the ASCAR "support" races.

Which does remind me that we just managed to avoid getting trampled in the rush to leave after the CART race there last year.

I am afraid I am one TOCA supporter who would not go along if there was a return to the BTCC being a support race to the GP.

Now where did I put those ear plugs!!!:D

[Ann]

Looking at the picture in today's Autosport, the pitlane is full with just the cars. And that's stacked two deep, unpacked. I still can't get my head round how they are going to fit in all the gear they had with them at the Rock. Everyone breath in!!

[Les]

ear plugs - I knew I had forgotten something.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Alan
I can't help getting the feeling that the TOCA package is being overshadowed by CART. Take this weeks supplement with Autosport - 35 pages, on page 33 there is a section entitled "the others"!!! - you can guess what is covered there.

As a TOCA Tour supporter I am going this weekend, but with some misgivings - as I also went to Rockingham last year to see the ASCAR "support" races.

Which does remind me that we just managed to avoid getting trampled in the rush to leave after the CART race there last year.

I am afraid I am one TOCA supporter who would not go along if there was a return to the BTCC being a support race to the GP.

Now where did I put those ear plugs!!!:D

It is being overshadowed a little bit. However, BTCC is not the only touring car series that support CART. At Surfer's Paradise last year, the Ausralian V8 series, which has an even bigger following than the BTCC, was a support race for the CART event. So this is nothing new.

This event can only do the BTCC a power of good, and improve the exposure of this series. Don't forget that Autosport article earlier this year about the series' demand for a headline event.

[The Stig]

Hope Champ Car does establish a presence in Europe. If the Champ meeting does become an annual spring event in Britain, I hope they move somewhere like Silverstone with a decent "undercard," where almost everything would be better for the event. Would also consider missing the Touring Car weekend if the BTCC was relegated.