Yvan Muller

[johnny grownup]

Hard to like Yvan Muller, anybody agree? Delighted Plato and then Thommo beat him to the title. Am I being contentious ??

[Radisich Fan]

Well your opinion.... Have you met him though?

he is a very likable person and has a very polite and chatty personality!

[johnny grownup]

Never had the privelage and would quite like to.
Guess my judgement might be clouded by his working relationship with Plato, year before last. No doubt about his huge talent in the blokes seat of a car though. Unfortunately, only one man can end up drivers champion, and each season there are five or six drivers with the talent to do it. Talent though, isn't enough, champions become champions in a partnership with eningeers and their teams.

[thommo_fan]

i think muller's a fantastic driver and a nice bloke out of the car, but he has got some dirty tricks up his sleave and he sometimes uses them.
but the same could be said of most drivers

[Peter]

I think it is a little unfar to dislike him.

He has been an enthusiast and clearly enjoys this series. He is one of few drivers, who have remained loyal to the Championship during the bad times.

There are very few foreign drivers and I believe they are important for the championship's prestige.

You have to feel sorry for him too. He has suffered more than his fair share of mechanical problems and he is probably the fastest driver out there, over a single lap.

His driving style has provided a great deal of entertainment over the years. Who could remember that astonishing save at Snetterton in 1999, when he actually gained a place?! Remember that pass on Laurent Aiello and Anthony Reid at Brands Hatch? The BTCC would be a much duller place without him.

I would like to see him win the title eventually.

[MG-ZS EX260]

I am a big fan of Yvan, hes a great driver and was robbed of the title in 2001, i felt very sorry for him im suprised he didnt kick off on plato! then this year to be leading into the final round by 1 point to have a suspension failure (which i still think is very suspicious) i just think he deserves the championship, if reid or hughes cant win this year i fully suport Yvan, good luck, its about time u got some!

[thommo_fan]

he had suspension failure because he hit o'neill, theres nothing suspicious about it

[Claw]

I like Muller and it's a shame he hasn't won the title. I would think if he comes runner up again this year, he may well pack in the BTCC.
Runner-up 3 times in a row would drive anyone mad!
It drove Menu mad! :p

[thommo_fan]

i reckon its going to be even harder to win the championship this year because there will be at least 3 or 4 teams right on the pace from the first round.

[Claw]

Yeah, Vauxhall won't have it all there own way. There's competition now!

[thommo_fan]

if pyper gets one of the GA astra seats, which he should then i wouldn't be surprised to see him right up there, the guys got raw speed.

[Les]

I like Yvan - a lot. There are very few drivers who having lost the championship walks back to the pits and actually stops and talks - even though he must have felt like just going home.

He is a perfect gent to the fans though his sense of humour can be a little hard to follow.

[Radisich Fan]

He is a lovely guy, seemed more at ease to me when I spoke to him in French

[Sim_Da_BTCC_Man]

Originally posted by thommo_fan
if pyper gets one of the GA astra seats, which he should then i wouldn't be surprised to see him right up there, the guys got raw speed.

Would Team Dynamics pull backing if they are funding Matt Neal, assuming that they were going to back Pyper again and that Matt is now being backed by them.

[King Cleland]

He is lovely to talk to, although I didn't like the unfair treatment he got a Vauxhall in 1999! :mad:

[thommo_fan]

what unfair treatment.
the team loved him.

[King Cleland]

he was favoured over john Cleland

[thommo_fan]

the team still loved cleland until he announced his retirement on tv before he told the team

[John]

Now heres a good topic!! My views (for what theyre worth) are probably own the middle - I have to admit to supporting Plato in 01 and Thompson in 02 over Muller - but thats partly because they're British and partly because Muller was 'expected' to win it.


For those people dissing him I think thats a bit unfair - he has stuck with the BTCC when many drivers (esp the foreign drivers) went elsewhere - he gives the championship a bit more credibility in the absence of Rydell, Tarquine, Menu et al. Linked to this I think is the language problem - a lot of what people dont seem to like might be down to the language barriers and his inability to express himself as effectively as others in the team/championship. Especially in 2001 he was in a team with 3 Brits, two of whom (Jason and James) have been mates for years. However..........

I dont agree with those who say he was robbed in 2001 and blame Plato for everything - Yvan gives as good as he gets, he punted Phil B out of the way at least once (Donington Pk for example) and theres no denying the fact he was having mechanical problems when Plato hit him at Silverstone as we were shown the telemetry. Also I got the feeling Muller wasnt too bothered about the championship - when they did the 'what does it mean to have the trophy on your mantelpiece' interviews Plato said it was 5years hard work, what he's been aiming for and is as important to him as M. Schu's F1 title is. Muller however said it meant he'd have done a good job and if he didnt win he'd still be the same person - this to me seems to be something lacking from a championship challenger (desire) - but again this could be down to language barriers??

Also - I didnt like the way the team operated in 2000 - especially at Thruxton but also at other times in the year - Vincent Radermacker especially was given such a hard time by having to let team mates pass and presumably was last to benefit from improvements/updates to the car. The fact that he was forced to give Muller his race car at Snetterton for the night race cos Mullers was smashed up sums this up - esp when it was actually Muller hitting Reid that caused the crash which led to the damage.

But then when you consider 1999 there were some great drives getting results that the Vectra probably wasnt worthy of - and who can forget Brands when he won the race. However again he was the 'chosen boy' of the team and Cleland suffered - esp in the way the cars were set up to suit Mullers oversteering style.

So.... to sum up this ramble...... good guy that the championship needs, possibly misunderstood, but not entirely innocent and dont think favouritism in the team has done him any favours with team mates and some fans. (In my opinion!)

[King Cleland]

I like Muller, I do, but the way that the Frenchamn suddenly came to Vauxhall and the car was completley changed to suit him and Cleland suffered..... If Muller hand't gone to Vauxhall, Cleland would still be in touring cars. :(

[thommo_fan]

no he wouldn't.
he had lost that hunger that every racing driver needs.
thats all.

[John]

Just a coincidence that he lost it in preseason 1999 after complaining about how the setup of the car suited Muller but not him.

At the end of 98 he definately had hunger - esp after those two race wins and being second in the championship going into Croft

[King Cleland]

He did have the hunger, believe me, Muller's fault, but I like Muller too :D

[thommo_fan]

Originally posted by John
Just a coincidence that he lost it in preseason 1999 after complaining about how the setup of the car suited Muller but not him.

just an excuse.

cleland was a fighter and if he had all this hunger to still win races then why didn't he stay at vauxhall and fight for what he wanted or move to another team?

anyway how did he know the car was more suited to muller then him?
couldn't it have just been that muller was a better driver and he was outpacing him and cleland didn't want to admit it?

[John]

Originally posted by thommo_fan
move to another team

Cleland driving something other than a Vauxhall in the BTCC!! Can't picture that one!! ;)

[thommo_fan]

why not, if he was unhappy at vauxhall, you don't stay in a job if your unhappy.

[John]

Cos John Cleland was 'Mr Vauxhall' for years its like Rickard Rydell driving for someone other than Volvo - oh wait a minute that happened didnt it?!? ;)

Maybe Bernd Schneider and Mercedes is a better example then?

[Frank Rizzo]

My two penneth.

Muller - like his style - amazing car control, consistent turn of speed, good race craft.

Personally, I don't see any language problem - he appears on TV as one of BTCC's true 'stars', and has a great image for this job.

Now, in 2002, there is one thing that sticks in my mind that makes the earlier comment about him having no hunger or desire nonsense - Brands, Druids, Thommo. He 100% had him off, and I'd bet that when he is no longer team mates with JT he'll admit it. He's too good to have made that mistake, cold tyres or not. He deliberately locked up and took Thommo into the trap. He stood to benefit regardless of whether he got out of the gravel or not.

I'm not knocking this - I think it's what makes a champion - the ability to be so hungry that you'd make a deliberate mistake in your charge for the top prize. If you haven't got that selfishness, you probably would never make it as a champion. Look at Schumacher - his tactics have been rightly called into question umpteen times - yet he is by far the most successfull driver ever in F1 (or anywhere else).

You also don't hear whining coming from the French camp when things go wrong - just a Gaelic shrug and a 'C'est La Vie'. That's not a lack of hunger, just an acceptance of what you cannot change. The BTCC would be poorer without him.

Still want Thommo to do the double though!

[lauz]

yvan muller is probaly the best driver in the championship, technically he is brillient.

[Peter]

Originally posted by thommo_fan
what unfair treatment.
the team loved him.

The team did love him before the 1999 season. When Yvan took over the number 1 status, there was a great deal of tension between JC and the team. I remember reading how Cleland had fallen out with Derek Warwick.

[Peter]

Originally posted by John
Now heres a good topic!! My views (for what theyre worth) are probably own the middle - I have to admit to supporting Plato in 01 and Thompson in 02 over Muller - but thats partly because they're British and partly because Muller was 'expected' to win it.


For those people dissing him I think thats a bit unfair - he has stuck with the BTCC when many drivers (esp the foreign drivers) went elsewhere - he gives the championship a bit more credibility in the absence of Rydell, Tarquine, Menu et al. Linked to this I think is the language problem - a lot of what people dont seem to like might be down to the language barriers and his inability to express himself as effectively as others in the team/championship. Especially in 2001 he was in a team with 3 Brits, two of whom (Jason and James) have been mates for years. However..........

I dont agree with those who say he was robbed in 2001 and blame Plato for everything - Yvan gives as good as he gets, he punted Phil B out of the way at least once (Donington Pk for example) and theres no denying the fact he was having mechanical problems when Plato hit him at Silverstone as we were shown the telemetry. Also I got the feeling Muller wasnt too bothered about the championship - when they did the 'what does it mean to have the trophy on your mantelpiece' interviews Plato said it was 5years hard work, what he's been aiming for and is as important to him as M. Schu's F1 title is. Muller however said it meant he'd have done a good job and if he didnt win he'd still be the same person - this to me seems to be something lacking from a championship challenger (desire) - but again this could be down to language barriers??

Also - I didnt like the way the team operated in 2000 - especially at Thruxton but also at other times in the year - Vincent Radermacker especially was given such a hard time by having to let team mates pass and presumably was last to benefit from improvements/updates to the car. The fact that he was forced to give Muller his race car at Snetterton for the night race cos Mullers was smashed up sums this up - esp when it was actually Muller hitting Reid that caused the crash which led to the damage.

But then when you consider 1999 there were some great drives getting results that the Vectra probably wasnt worthy of - and who can forget Brands when he won the race. However again he was the 'chosen boy' of the team and Cleland suffered - esp in the way the cars were set up to suit Mullers oversteering style.

So.... to sum up this ramble...... good guy that the championship needs, possibly misunderstood, but not entirely innocent and dont think favouritism in the team has done him any favours with team mates and some fans. (In my opinion!)

Very well put.:)

[The Stig]

Think the Brit thing has lots to do with it. In against Plato and Thommo, who will most Brit fans be pulling for ? People like Matt Neal, Plato and Thommo are much of the reason BTCC draws such an audience. The championship would be far poorer without him though. Frank Rizzo was spot on earlier in this thread though, cold tyres or not, Thommo got nerfed off on purpose at Brands. Long may this kind of action continue, with another one for Thommo come September please.

[Dazza_p]

Seems like a cool bloke. Me and a friend were waiting outside the thistle hotel after the Brands championship decider 2001 waiting for a taxi in the freezing cold and Yvan still was polite enough to say hello (whilst wearing his cowboy hat!!) even though he had lost the championship less than an hour previously.
Can't say I dislike him. Seems to have rotten luck though.

[John]

Good point about the clash with Thommo at Brands. Has to be said though that he was very fortunate to 'get away with it' so easily - ie be forgiven by James - especially considering his reaction in 2001 when it was Jason that collided with him (Its also worth noting that Yvan still finished in third (second once Jason was penalised) in that race at Silverstone whereas James scored no points at Brands).

However - if its true about Muller being treated as no. 1 at Vauxall (or even perceived to be no. 1) maybe James thought if they did have a massive fall out like in 2001 then he'd be looking for another drive in 2003 once he found his contract was not renewed - just a thought!

[Frank Rizzo]

May I just point out that John and The Stig are to be congratulated on their intelligent and informed comments. Especially the ones that agree with mine.....

Fine chaps, the pair of them....

Seriously though, all else aside, I'm all for a championship with a bit of needle, so if that what a 'nerf' creates, then keep 'em coming! A-G, A-G-R, etc etc.

:D ;)

[thommo_fan]

i totally agree with the points made by frank, stig and john about the muller thommo clash at brands last year, i have been saying exactly the same thing since it happened, he knew what he was doing.

but the btcc wouldn't be the btcc without these inncidents that affect the title battle.

[John]

Originally posted by Frank Rizzo
May I just point out that John and The Stig are to be congratulated on their intelligent and informed comments. Especially the ones that agree with mine.....

Fine chaps, the pair of them....

Thanks very much - the cheques in the post mate! ;)

Totally agree that we need incidents like that - I think that just because Vauxhall have been dominant lately, meaning title clashes like this have been between team mates, that theres more made of it. There wasnt as much made of Reid and Rydell at Brands 98 (or maybe there was but I dont remember a huge falling out).

All I can say is Im so so glad we dont have F1 (well Ferrari to be exact) style team oreders in the BTCC

[King Cleland]

The BTCC needs the contraversy and brilliant racing!

I added two BTCC fans by just telling them to watch Donny highlights, it is so easy to tune into!

[thommo_fan]

there was a big falling out between reid and rydell at brands in 1998.
after the race rydell went up reid while he was still strapped in his car and grabbed him round the throat and said '' if you do that again, i'm gonna have you''.

brillient:D

[John]

Totally out of character for Rydell - and it wasnt the worst move of the year - but it worked and he got Reid demoted! Clever stuff Rik! ;)

[King Cleland]

I liked Rydell, but he often exaggerated things....

[thommo_fan]

no way, if rydell had a problem or something he would usually just let it go and get on with his job. he certainly wasn't a moaner or anything like that because he was so laid back.
at the last race of the 2000 season when rydell had a chance of the title and he had a problem with his ford on the grid which meant he couldn't start the race. in the interview he did a couple of minutes later he still had a smile on his face and he just put it down to bad luck.

[John]

Yeah, good point! What do u reckon Menu would have said if it had been his car then?!?! ;)

[King Cleland]

No, I mean, an example, Brands August meeting 1998,

Reid and Rydell collide slighty, and Rydell said he hit me and I almost went off...... no way!

Several times this has occured!

[King Cleland]

Menu would have gone nuts if it was his car though!

[John]

Especially as it wouldnt have been his fault - oh wait a minute - nothing was EVER his fault was it?!? :p

[Claw]

Menu did like to think he was mr.perfect and could do nothing wrong.

[John]

Yeah.... to the amazement of the rest - like when he blamed Will Hoy for having him off at Oulten in 1999 and Will said he knew nothing about it until he came round on lap 2 and saw the Ford in the pond! :p :p

[Claw]

That was Menu's doing, trying to go around the outside of a corner like Cascades!!

[John]

And of course there was the strop at the end of 1998 in hi last Renault drive!!

Good racer though - as the results show.

[King Cleland]

:D :D

What a comment...

What was it John Clelnad said about it when he saw the car?

All I remember is that it was very funny!

[John]

Hope he's packed his trunks? Or was that Matt Neal?! :p

[Claw]

Neal said, "Holy ****, Menu's in the lake I think.."

:D

[King Cleland]

"Hope he ******* sinks" JC - We think!

"Holy ****! MN - Fact

[John]

And they seem like such nice people as well!! ;)

[King Cleland]

:D They are just the same as the rest of us, we all know John has his verbals, Thruxton 97 in the pits comes to mind!

[John]

Yeah whoever bought that bleep machine has had their money's worth over the years!! ;) ;)