Champ Cars or BTCC?

[Mocko]

Right, since it was a bank holiday up in Scotland as well, I decided to sit down and watch live TOCAtour and Champ Cars. I joined in to watch a replay of a Carrera Cup race, great stuff, lovely racing.

Then I watched the Champ Cars live on Eurosport and after a few laps the cars were nice and evenly spaced out. Getting sick of the conversation between commentators (rather than commentating) I switched over to Motors TV and saw Formula Fords. Two seconds of FFord were more exciting than 10 minutes of Chump Cars. I watched some more Champ Cars until I flicked over to see Honda struggiling to get wheels on the car and for the rest of that first race I found the BTCC was absolutely fantastic now.

So basically comparing the two I found the BTCC great. Now it might be different for those at Brands (although with all the air horns going off when Neal won, I'll guess what the crowd preferred) and those who could be bothered to see the whole Champ Car race, so I'm putting on this poll to see what people think.

Whether you preferred either one or both were as good as each other.

[Frank Rizzo]

Mocko, I watched about 30 laps, fell asleep for about 10 minutes, woke up and didn't notice anything different happening. Noisy, and an exciting start with the fireworks (which scared the living sh*t out of me), but ultimately they were on the wrong track.

These cars are all about tow, and on the indy circuit it's impossible for them to get one. We went and looked around for the rest of the Champ Car race, and it was really busy away from the circuit.

Procession.

[Amanda]

BTCC ~ no contest!

[Les]

i was exactly the same as Mocko - how I fell asleep I have no idea but I did!!

I have promised myself that if this happens next year and there is something else to watch then I am going to miss my first touring car race for 4 years.

[touring fan]

I liked both races really but for different reasons. BTCC had more action but I just love those champ cars, they sound fantastic.
Glad I'm not the only one who got a fright from those fireworks (but did everyone around me really have to laugh quite so loud?).

[Tim.Lad]

BTCC stole the show imo, champ cars was good but when it came to the race it was just so dull...

[Frank Rizzo]

Originally posted by touring fan
I liked both races really but for different reasons. BTCC had more action but I just love those champ cars, they sound fantastic.
Glad I'm not the only one who got a fright from those fireworks (but did everyone around me really have to laugh quite so loud?).

lol

When the first lot went up (I was at Pad Hill G/stand), althought they weren't particularly loud, they were just so damn unexpected. I almost hit the deck - thought it was going off lol.

And btw - I had a really bad hangover, and that huge hoover mobile really didn't help. All I needed was warm parafin blowing in my mush to settle the old stomach ...

[Paul Rayner]

Champ Cars were better for the first two days, they were just so impressive with their noise, speed and braking power. Touring Cars were the better by far when they got racing though. Brands Indy is probably the worst circuit for racing in single seaters with wings that TOCA visits.

[John]

Poll seems pretty conclusive at the minute - but its hardly surprising as its a BTCC site - ask the question on a Champ Car site and see what they say!! ;)

[Alan]

BTCC for me folks!

I rather suspect that even Champ Car supporters will admit that was not their best race - they can do much better given a suitable circuit.

Anyone know if the race from Germany is being shown live? I gather they are going to be running the same aero package (high downforce?) on the Lausitz oval - so will that combination also lead to a - even higher speed - procession?

[Frank Rizzo]

I think a real oval makes all the difference - as long as they can get a tow, they can overtake, but at Brands on the Indy, it's impossible for them. I think they (the cart drivers) all pretty much said as much (see autosport dot com).

PS - I was glad to see Bourdais get his maiden win - he should have got it in the first round and then in the second. He'll be in F1 by 2005 I reckon.

[Ann]

BTCC - lots of action - fantastic racing

Champ Cars - snore........

[The Stig]

Pardon my quaint turn of phrase, BTCC pee'd all over Champ Cars. Would have had more fun watching a skip rust. Loved the noise and power of the single seaters, would have preferred Darren Manning to finish higher. Just got the impression the Champ Car drivers were just itching to blat it but couldn't because of the tight nature of the circuit with only one decent straight. Respect to them all though showing no fear through Paddock Hill Bend. BTCC never seems to let us down. We have a couple of talking points at most race meetings, which always seems to polarise opinion. Matt Neal, for example this weekend.

[Frank Rizzo]

Apparently, the real reason they didn't let rip is to conserve fuel. The series rules were changed regarding pitstops for this meeting due to the limited pit lane space. Therefore, they couldn't all come bundling in under a full course yellow. Fuel conservation was therefore the major factor in how they drove. Pity.

[Alfa Fan]

BTCC

[Peter]

Originally posted by Alan
Anyone know if the race from Germany is being shown live? I gather they are going to be running the same aero package (high downforce?) on the Lausitz oval - so will that combination also lead to a - even higher speed - procession?

A tape delayed broadcast of the German 500 will air on Eurosport at 2130 on Sunday night. Bit worried that it will be badly editted though, as it is cut down to an hour.

No one knows yet what the racing will be like with the road course wing on the Lausitz oval. The racing was outstanding 2 years ago with the old package (last year was cancelled). CART used to run road wings on all tight ovals and there were lead changes literally every five laps, so fingers crossed.

[The Stig]

Not going to be deterred by Monday at Brands - will give Champ Cars another go this weekend. Have been entertained before on the odd occasions I've caught it on Europsort or wherever. Is each event televised live or with delayed highlights packages.

[Amanda]

Originally posted by The Stig
Would have had more fun watching a skip rust.

After watching the champ cars for 10 minutes my comment was I was off to do something really exciting ~ like watching paint dry!!!

[Claire]

After all the hype of the Chump cars I was expecting a good race but it was so boring, even the first corner was a big anti climax. We are all biased on here so BTCC is bound to win the poll, lets hope that our comments are taken on board and the Chump cars find a different support package next season. ;)

[Reynard]

Originally posted by Amanda
After watching the champ cars for 10 minutes my comment was I was off to do something really exciting ~ like watching paint dry!!!

Seems that Champ cars haven't changed much since Rockingham last year then, Amanda...

BTCC for me any day - at least you get to see paintswappingdoorbashingmirrorsmashingtyresmoking honest to God racing :)

[theUKrules]

the BTCC the racing was awsome i loved it before and now i have seen them in person i love them even more and im goin to see then at alot more tracks now.

touring cars are the best form of motorsport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D :p :)

[Mocko]

Originally posted by Reynard

BTCC for me any day - at least you get to see paintswappingdoorbashingmirrorsmashingtyresmoking honest to God racing :)

Damn right!!!

[cos]

Brands Indy is a great track for post-2001 BTCC but rubbish for any single-seaters greater than FRenault (I left before the race on Monday to avoid the traffic jam so I can't really comment on them...) so don't judge CART on this race alone. Let them loose on the GP track (which I hear may not happen now because of lack of runoff space :( ), get rid of that fuel rule and we'll see some good racing.

[The Stig]

Cos, not seeing the Formula Renaults you missed a treat which restored my faith in single seaters. A couple of times the young pilots drew a spontaneous round of applause for good saves in the gravel at Paddock Hill bend. Having said that, the trap was full of machinery in various states of decay at the end.

[cos]

:( oh well. How did Lewis Hamilton get on?

[The Stig]

He didn't! He chucked it off, at Paddock Hill bend spookily enough.

[Alan]

Meanwhile - back at the Champ car discussion - I note some interesting comments in Autosport.

Most agree the race was processional.
Use the GP circuit next time.

But - get this - flatten the pits and build a new one, maybe on the outside to get a longer pitlane. This to avoid the refuelling problem which caused the aforementioned "procession".

All well and good - but who do they expect to pay for this may I ask?

[cos]

Originally posted by Alan
All well and good - but who do they expect to pay for this may I ask?

The fans....

[Alan]

You are very probably right there cos!!;)

We must have put down a good deposit at the weekend then - take 40,000 people at £40 a head - um - I make that £1.6m!

There will no doubt have been some "expenses" though so that will probably leave about - £50!!!!!:D

Oh dear, where is my piggy bank.

[Les]

but pits on the outside - lovely! ;)

[thommo_fan]

the BTCC is best, no doubt, its just better racing.

they can't move the pitlane to the outside. that wouldn't work

[Alan]

Straight out of Clearways into the pit lane - you bet it would!!!

Mind you - the construction work involved would be immense.

The pitlane is on the outside at other circuits so I can't see why it shouldn't work.

[The Stig]

I was going to say. Wouldn't immense construction work involve an immense expense, which the circuit and its customers can ill afford. If it ain't broke why try and fix it ?

[Peter]

Originally posted by The Stig
I was going to say. Wouldn't immense construction work involve an immense expense, which the circuit and its customers can ill afford. If it ain't broke why try and fix it ?

I am not sure where the money would come from. However, after 40 years of having that very same pit lane, it is crying out for an upgrade. Because the paddock is on the inside of a very narrow infield, fans are not allowed to enter during a normal BTCC race weekend. The circuit holds a world superbike event, yet the facilities make hospitality and general comfort very unpleasant.

Building a new pit lane on the outside who also be extremely beneficial to the support series, as the current paddock could become the support paddock.

[Paul Rayner]

Is everyone forgetting something about if they put the pits on the outside - where would the spectators go?!?!?! You'd lose all the space where those big grandstands were for CART and you'd have the media centre, plus all the Brabham hospitality suites, to go somewhere. Unless you put them on top of the pits, in a way similar to the Rockingham building, I don't see how you could do it, and that would cost millions.

To change the pits at Brands would cost a lot.

£1.6m in ticket sales? I wonder exactly how much it cost Brands to host the event, that won't have been cheap.

[Alan]

Another point - if they are going to have 40,000 plus people turning up they are going to have to do something very serious about access to the circuit.

There were (I am informed - we were in at 7.10am!!!) some very big tailbacks as far as the M25. That will have to be sorted. Mind you, we queued for nearly an hour to get in to Rockingham yesterday - so there were problems there too.

[Knockhill]

F3 and GT on 4 is smashing good fun too ... Saturday mornings at 7ish am.