Thruxton Action

[bramble]

Wow, what a days racing. Good to see Muller getting a double win. MG's seemed off the pace, and Gavin Pyper starting an accident which took 4 cars off!

[Le Mans]

A great afternoon's racing! Mueller was brilliant. Superb coverage from MotorsTV, the commentators get better and better. Tim Harvey's insight and knowledge are well appreciated. I especially found his comments on Mueller's driving style and strenghs interesting. The Hondas are so quick, they are definately a match for Vauxhall this year.

[touring fan]

The first i knew of tha start accident was when I heard a loud thud and an MG and Jim Edwards went past me sideways. (I was looking the other way at the time). It was a very good days racing but I can't help feeling a bit disappointed with the Honda pitwork, they just can't seem to get it together, possibly missing the chance for two wins.

[theUKrules]

matt drove really well on the first race and he caught up quite abit shame there wernt a few more laps the he might on won!! and alan morrison drove really well gettin second and he nearly got muller a couple of times

does any one know what happened 2 the back of neals car on the second race i was watchin from the complex and saw him go off but when he came back his rear bumper was all bent up.

GO HONDA GO!!!!!

[pirie]

It was such good coverage on MotorsTv.

With the Honda on such fast laps it was a shame about he flat tyre and also the pit stops, Vauxhall really do have that all sorted. The car set up Thompson had was still very poor in race 2. Or was it that he had a more serious problem???

[The Stig]

Wasn't at Thruxton in person today, but made do with the very good motors TV coverage. more of which later. 25000+ spectators were apparently at the circuit today, gorgeous weather and some top line racing. Thankfully no serious injuries to drivers in a horrendous looking, race one incident. Have watched the replays a few times now and still can't quite see who, if anyone, was to blame. Interesting TV interview with Rob Collard, maybe too soon after the accident though. In his opinion, there was only one person at fault. Jim Edwards must be gutted.
Tim Harvey gets better and better. Thoughtful and accurate analysis. A really good insight.

[Tim.Lad]

Well just got in and all i can say is wow !!!

it was so hot and i`m so burnt, the racing this weekend was nothing like ive ever seen quality all the way.... only problem i had was it was so busy it was difficult to find a spot !!! but the feeling of a true event was there this weekend :) good job

[Les]

Just got back as well and the highlight for me - Tom B's double win - amazing, brilliant, love it and roll on Jim getting his Pug.

[Alan]

Well someone told me there were only 14,000 there today but I really cannot believe that - the banks were nearly standing room only. It certainly looked more than 14k!!:(

Have just watched the coverage from today and have to say I think Gavin P is being unfairly blamed for the accident. Rob was quite understandably upset, but, as Tim Harvey said, he may change his mind when he sees the footage. Have to say there was not a mark on Gavins car afterwards.

Good days racing though - but I hope Yvan Muller doesn't complain about his bad luck too much in the near future. He is definitely benefiting from the bad luck of others at present!

My driver of the day - Alan Morrison! (and Dave Pinkney and Phil Bennett in other races!!!).

[The Stig]

The Rob Collard interview was pretty soon after the huge incident and clearly emotions were still running pretty high. Can't believe Rob wouldn't reconsider his opinion having reviewed the coverage. The white Vauxhall does look pretty unmarked as you correctly point out, not even much tyre smudging. Have seen the replays a couple of times and even looking back one or two cars, it isn't obvious where the incident began to occur.
Starting to be really impressed by Paul O'Neill. He isn't just touring round, this should be the season where he starts to make progress and really harry the established people, team mates and otherwise.

[Peter]

A fantastic day! The glorious crowd reminded me of the mid-90's!

I was standing at the Campbell/ Cobb and Seagrave complex. Unfortunately, I only caught the end of the incident. Having seen the television coverage, I though Collard was very unfair to say that Pyper's move was 'deliberate.' Blame aside, lets just hope all that heavy damage is repaired for Silverstone.

I don't think you can give the star drive to anyone other than Muller- two patient, controlled, faultless drives. I think Luke Hines and Alan Morrison deserve special mentions for their storming drivers after a poor qualifying and a penalty respectively. Reid impressed me with his amazing first few laps, when he stormed to 4th from the back.

The race of the day was definitely the Clio race. Slip streaming and lead changes every lap, ad not knowing who was going to win until the last second- What more could you want?!

[Stuart]

Ok....confession time.... Thruxton was my first BTCC visit since 1999.
All I can say is...WOW!!!!!!!!!
Just fantastic racing all the way. I looked left to watch the action into the Complex on lap 1 of race 1, glanced back to the right to see Warren Hughes arriving sideways on the grass followed by Jim Edwards wheel - not quite what I'd come to see...
After that though my expectations were surpassed with some hard fought, proper racing.
Muller was so exciting to watch. The way he controlled both races was quite brilliant - the closest to Bernd Schnieder I have ever seen.
Matt Neal drove his heart out and the sheer enthusiasm of Paul O'Neal on the winners podium was something to savour.
I didn't stop smiling all the way home!
A fabulous day!

[cos]

Silly me... I didn't bring any suncream as I thought it would be typical English Bank Holiday weather :rolleyes: I now have a very red face...

Shame about Collard's accident... I shall watch the TV coverage before I make any judgement. I missed the incident itself as I was looking towards the complex expecting something to happen there... anyone know why Pyper didn't start the 2nd race?
James Kaye's Honda seems to be getting better and better, and it was a shame that the Production class wasn't much of a race, unlike last year, when the cars would arrive in a completely different order lap after lap.
I spotted (I think) Mike Earle (Arena boss) on crutches in the Paddock, dunno what happened to him...
Aaron Slight's donuts in the Porsche were quite spectacular! - a good end to a comparatively dull race.
During the pit lane walkabout, a couple of Carlube girls were trying to chat up Dan Eaves...

[Amanda]

We had a great time at Thruxton on Sunday and Monday. The weather yesterday was gorgeous. The racing was close and exciting.

It was good to catch up with old friends and make some new ones.

I can't wait for Silverstone!

[Jamie P-E]

Amanda, it was good to meet You and Alan over the weekend and am looking forward to 2 drama filled days at Silverstone plus I am camping so that will be fun!!!! see you there.

Jamie

[Peter]

Amanda and Alan~ Great to meet you two! Thanks for all your good help and advice- I really appreciated it.

Hope to catch you at Silverstone!:D

[Ann]

Sorry to have missed you Peter - I did tell Alan to hang on to you but never mind - next time hopefully!

[Peter]

Shame I didn't catch you yesterday, look forward to seeing you at Silverstone!

[Amanda]

Jamie ~ I would invite you to stay here for Silverstone but I already have a house full! Fingers crossed the weather is kind to you for your camping trip.

Peter ~ we will be at Silverstone but am sure you guessed that already!

I have persuaded a friend who has never been racing before to join us at Silverstone.

See you both there!:D

[Alan]

Sorry Ann - will hold on to Peter tighter next time!!!

Nice to meet you and your Dad Peter, hope you enjoyed yourselves.

See you and Jamie P-E at Silverstone.

[cos]

Originally posted by Alan

Have just watched the coverage from today and have to say I think Gavin P is being unfairly blamed for the accident.

Unfairly blames or not, Autosport says that GP has been given a verbal warning and 2 points on his licence.

[Cleland Fan]

Not happy with that disciplinary action. It's disgraceful.

[Amanda]

Well said Cleland Fan!

[Peter]

Originally posted by Alan
Sorry Ann - will hold on to Peter tighter next time!!!

Nice to meet you and your Dad Peter, hope you enjoyed yourselves.

See you and Jamie P-E at Silverstone.

Cheers Alan,

We had an outstanding day, as ever.

See you at Silverstone!

[Alan]

Well I think re the Gavin Pyper/Rob Collard incident we will have to accept the judgement of the officials - but..... I have to say I am a little alarmed at the wording I have seen.

Gavin was apparently given his points for "causing an avoidable accident" - according to Autosport. So forgive me but if drivers back off and/or pull onto the grass when things get a bit close will this improve the racing?

I personally think not and hope that this statement is a gross oversimplification of the full text of the reason for the fine.

Most accidents are avoidable - usually by a driver backing off. Unfortunately (or not) this is not the nature of most racing drivers!!! While I completely sympathise with Rob Collard I do feel that he is missing the point by threatening to pull out. Gavin may have a bit of a reputation - but I am convinced this was not a deliberate act. To coin a well used phrase "it was just a racing incident".

End of rant!!!!:D

[cos]

Hm, Toca always seem to be a bit harsh on GP, remember the incident that got Gavin banned for a couple of races last season (hitting Kaye at Thruxton I think) ~ seemed nothing worse than any other incidents during the year...

[The Stig]

Don't want to be devils advocate on this one, but is the punishment meted out only half of one ? What I mean is, If Gavin is guilty of causing an accident or an avoidable accident, I'm not certain he was, shouldn't the punishment fit the "crime" This was one of the biggest and probably most expensive "racing incidents" I've seen recently, if, and it's a big if, Gavin is guilty, given the carnage that ensued, wouldn't a driving ban have been more appropriate. Would emphasise I'm not convinced Gavin Pyper was at fault. What constitutes a driving ban, an accumulation of points for various misdemeanours? Please could somebody explain, if they have time, the points penalty system ?

[Les]

have to say I was a little dismayed by the result.

On one hand if Pyper did cause it then 2 points is not enough

and if he didn't and it was a racing incident then it does seem harsh.

all I can say is those who dish out the penalties do know what to look for in the right line to use for the corner, braking points, stance, speed etc etc

[The Stig]

Think I feel a can of worms coming on. Drivers, whether rookies or veterans have a right to expect consistency. Did Matt Neal get off scot free for his "pass" on Paul O'Neill at Brands ? If a driver seeks to gain an unfair advantage, surely that the should be the criteria for imposing penalties of whatever, points/bans/financial, kind. With three or four cars abreast at a high speed circuit in the first corner, something has to give. That's my interpretation of the Gavin Pyper situation.

Nothing against Matt Neal, BTW, just using him to illustrate my point.

[Cleland Fan]

When people see the coverage for the first time, i hope they realise that the only option Pyper had, was to go straight on regardless of who was alongside him. If he backed off, he would have had an MG in his boot. If he went on the grass, there's a chance the car would have lost control and done a Collard in front of everyone.

[Amanda]

A friend of mine, who is a champion racing driver with many years experience, watched the Motors coverage for the first time last night (on standard play and frame by frame!). His view is that Rob Collard moved across on Gavin leaving him nowhere to go.

[The Stig]

I watched the incident again this afternoon on tape and I believe one of the two Peugeots might have started the accident a split second before Pyper and Collard collided. Collard WAS turned round, but by the left most Peugeot of the two. All he might have seen in his mirrors was the white Astra, hence his initial conviction he was deliberately turned round by Pyper.

[Les]

that's what Tim Harvey thought as well - hit by Pug and spun into Pyper. Racing incident.

The points/fines system can be a little daft really - Pyper gets 2 points for that. Matt had a £500 fine wasn't it for his move on Paul?
A mate of mine got one point for turning off his first extinguisher in parc ferme!

[tvgod]

Rob says that Dan Eaves (the Peugeot that looked close to him) wasn't involved, and Dan agrees (but then he would).

[The Stig]

There is only one television replay. Difficult to misinterpret surely ? Believe Gavin Pyper has reason to be slightly aggrieved. Maybe his reputation precedes him. Is there a history with him and Rob Collard ? Either way, to blame Pyper seems very tenuous. That was my point about some sort of consistency. Will drivers like Gavin Pyper and Phil Bennett ever benefit from marginal decisions.

[Cleland Fan]

Originally posted by tvgod
Rob says that Dan Eaves (the Peugeot that looked close to him) wasn't involved, and Dan agrees (but then he would).

Well there's a surprise. :rolleyes: Indies sticking together to drop another one in it.

[Peter]

Hopefully there will be on board footage on the ITV coverage which will shed a great deal further light on to this.

[Peter]

Having seen that incident from Pyper's on board, I have to say that it was very much a racing incident and Collard was not blameless by any means- Collard pushed Gavin to the left once and then squeezed him again before eventually spinning.

[Les]

I agree with you so why on earth did Pyper get two points?

[Highbury]

After watching the tv coverage of the race I do not see that Gavin Piper was in anyway to blame for the accident. Listening to one of the MG drivers it would seem that Collard was pushed from behind by a Peugeot, into the path of Piper.

[Cleland Fan]

Originally posted by Les
I agree with you so why on earth did Pyper get two points?

I'd love to hear the answer to that. I've been critical of the whole disciplinary system since the Phil Bennett incidents in summer 2001. He was treated poorly then, as was Pyper last year.

[Alan]

Well the people who make these decisions obviously based their decision on something - anyone got any idea what?

Rob Collard would obviously be a bit biased - justifiably so I guess. The observer on that corner probably saw something, but everything we have seen seems to indicate that Gavin has been unjustifiably treated.

I think the clue is in the wording though - the statement said Gavin caused an avoidable accident, and I guess this is true, he could of course have backed off!!!!

Now - answers on a postcard please as to what sort of racing this will lead to if all the drivers drive in this manner.

There is another point of course - what do you NOT do in the middle of a corner in a powerful FWD car?

Answer - back off! Now those of you who have been around since 2001 will be getting a strange feeling of de ja vu.

[Cleland Fan]

I agree. Backing off when there's the chance of contact would ruin the whole thing.

If Gavin was expected to back off then though, he very well could have had an MG into his rear end, as the following cars wouldn't be prepared for a car going from 100mph to say 50mph just like that.

[The Stig]

I'm convinced a Peugeot wasn't wholly innocent.
Thought it was just me regarding Pyper and Bennett, clearly not.
Following drivers do not expect cars ahead to back off or brake before the zone. These actions probably cause more mis-haps than they avoid.

[Les]

I have to say in my opinion it is about time the reasons for exclusions, penalty points, fines etc should be made more readily available.

Heck if it was a court case then you can just go and read about it whether it be in the papers or the judges decisions (can't you?) so why not our motorsport.

It would stop these heated dicussions we seem to have again and again.

[Alan]

I have a feeling that knowing more may cause even more discussions on here Les!!!

We know in this case why he was given two points - we just don't agree with it. We can discuss it till the cows come home, but we can't change it.

Like Gavin, we have to accept it and get on.

I suspect we don't know about the majority of fines and points, just what you might call the high profile ones.

As you say Les, this has long been a subject of debate on this and doubtless other forums, but I don't think, unless you are very close to a particular team or driver, we will ever find out quite as much as we would perhaps like to (or think we would like to).

[touringlegend]

I just reckon Gavin Pyper's being used as a scapegoat. He seemed to be banned for no apparent reason last year for a race, as did Phil Bennett for his part to play in the Pug running INTO him a couple of years back.

There is, IMO favoured drivers out there, Bennett and Pyper are not two of them...

[Les]

sorry to drag this up the top again.

I read today in Motorsport News that the reason Pyper was given the two points was because he didn't lift off quick enough when Collard was across his front.

Now I totally agree with the penalty but why wasn't this made public last week? :confused:

[Alan]

Don't be sorry for that Les!!

Must say I now agree even less with it! We went through this two years ago and now the same thing happens again!

We now face the prospect of drivers being penalised all over the shop for "not lifting off quickly enough". Sounds very woolly to me.

Who exactly is going to decide what is not quick enough? Did they look at GP's telemetry to confirm this? Will this be the ruling from now on when a driver pulls across in front of another? Who will be the first driver to brake and cause an even bigger accident?:(

Still - all above us! I wouldn't like to have to be the guys who decide on this that is for sure!

[MG-ZS EX260]

Originally posted by Les
sorry to drag this up the top again.

I read today in Motorsport News that the reason Pyper was given the two points was because he didn't lift off quick enough when Collard was across his front.

Now I totally agree with the penalty but why wasn't this made public last week? :confused:

WELL! if pyper got points for not lifting off, then Collard should get points for not flawing the throttle or heavy braking, if you watch the footage, as his car fires backwards across the track, he dosent brake or flaw the throttle.

ALSO the incident was definately EAVES fault, it was his pug that hit the back of collrd which pushed him into the front of pyper and pypers car spun him out.

[touringlegend]

I would like to know what's judged as "not quick enough" ???