6 Speed Sequential weight penalty

[GioFan]

Ive just been reading on VXRacing's site that because they run a 6 speed sequential they have the 30kg penalty that is always talked about with the BMW.

Ive never before heard mentioned that all cars that run 6 speed sequentials get the extra 30kg.

I just found that interesting and i really didnt know about that.

[mattlovestbs]

nor did i... doesnt exactly affect em

[obsessivecompulsive2]

Ive just been reading on VXRacing's site that because they run a 6 speed sequential they have the 30kg penalty that is always talked about with the BMW.

Ive never before heard mentioned that all cars that run 6 speed sequentials get the extra 30kg.

I just found that interesting and i really didnt know about that.
I knew that rule existed but i don;t know when it was introduced!

Like Matt said doesnt seem to slow them down does it?:D

[redshoes]

It's not a BTCC-specific rule, it's always been part of the S2000 regulations.

Current S2000 base weights as per the FIA regulations without any local or WTCC dispensations or sucess/newcomer ballast:
FWD, H-pattern - 1110 kg
FWD, Sequential - 1140 kg
RWD, H-pattern - 1140 kg
FWD, Diesel, H-pattern - 1150 kg
RWD, Sequential - 1170 kg
FWD, Diesel, Sequential - 1170 kg
RWD, Diesel, H-pattern - 1180 kg
RWD, Diesel, Sequential - 1200 kg

BTCC regs specify that S2000 cars are 10kg heavier than published FIA weights.

[topgear1]

It's not a BTCC-specific rule, it's always been part of the S2000 regulations.

Current S2000 base weights as per the FIA regulations without any local or WTCC dispensations or sucess/newcomer ballast:
FWD, H-pattern - 1110 kg
FWD, Sequential - 1140 kg
RWD, H-pattern - 1140 kg
FWD, Diesel, H-pattern - 1150 kg
RWD, Sequential - 1170 kg
FWD, Diesel, Sequential - 1170 kg
RWD, Diesel, H-pattern - 1180 kg
RWD, Diesel, Sequential - 1200 kg

BTCC regs specify that S2000 cars are 10kg heavier than published FIA weights.

seat should switch to a h pattern gearbox then.- would give them weight off- or would a diesel not work too good with an h pattern 5 speed gearbox??

[hobnob]

I'm not sure how it would affect the UK Seats but the WTCC team would never do it as they are limited to 4100rpm so they really need 6 gears to make the most of the torque.

I'd guess the BTCC boys wouldn't have such a problem but they'd still struggle a bit.

[obsessivecompulsive2]

It's not a BTCC-specific rule, it's always been part of the S2000 regulations.

Current S2000 base weights as per the FIA regulations without any local or WTCC dispensations or sucess/newcomer ballast:
FWD, H-pattern - 1110 kg
FWD, Sequential - 1140 kg
RWD, H-pattern - 1140 kg
FWD, Diesel, H-pattern - 1150 kg
RWD, Sequential - 1170 kg
FWD, Diesel, Sequential - 1170 kg
RWD, Diesel, H-pattern - 1180 kg
RWD, Diesel, Sequential - 1200 kg

BTCC regs specify that S2000 cars are 10kg heavier than published FIA weights.
Thanks for that Redshoes;

It;s all a bit confusing really;i don;t understand why all cars entering the BTCC and WTCC are;nt just given the same standard base weights to level it all out a bit,most of the teams are running the same power to weight ratios from the engines,and success ballast is added to the top finishers in each race.

I;d like to see it all simplified a bit is what i;m trying to say(voice in background says"GET ON WITH IT"!!)LOL:D :D

[kezbabybabe]

Thanks for that Redshoes;

It;s all a bit confusing really;i don;t understand why all cars entering the BTCC and WTCC are;nt just given the same standard base weights to level it all out a bit,most of the teams are running the same power to weight ratios from the engines,and success ballast is added to the top finishers in each race.

I;d like to see it all simplified a bit is what i;m trying to say(voice in background says"GET ON WITH IT"!!)LOL:D :D
But with so many different cars that wouldn't be possible. I think that would be a one make series.

[GioFan]

Thanks for that Redshoes;

It;s all a bit confusing really;i don;t understand why all cars entering the BTCC and WTCC are;nt just given the same standard base weights to level it all out a bit,most of the teams are running the same power to weight ratios from the engines,and success ballast is added to the top finishers in each race.

I;d like to see it all simplified a bit is what i;m trying to say(voice in background says"GET ON WITH IT"!!)LOL:D :D

To do something like that they'd have to make it like TC2000 or DTM where the cars run basically the same chassis and then just have the body's of the road cars they represent on them.

[redshoes]

It;s all a bit confusing really;i don;t understand why all cars entering the BTCC and WTCC are;nt just given the same standard base weights to level it all out a bit
That would only work if all base cars were equal, which they aren't.

Under normal conditions a RWD race car will be quicker than it's FWD equivalent so you have to adjust weights to compensate - even in SuperTouring days the RWD cars were always heaver. Likewise a 6-speed sequential 'box will save you a few fractions of a second compared to a 5-speed H-pattern, not because of the number of gears but because you can change gears fastest, so the extra weight should slow your lap time by roughly the same amount as that advantage.



seat should switch to a h pattern gearbox then.- would give them weight off- or would a diesel not work too good with an h pattern 5 speed gearbox??
The SEATs are homologated with a 6-speed so it's not as simple a just fitting an H-pattern. That's not to say that the Leon couldn't be re-homologated. It's a similar situation to when Team RAC tried to race in the WTCC - BMW is homologated with an H-pattern, RAC use a 6-speed which meant they had to run as a locally-homologated non-scoring entry with extra ballast.

Also the diesel tends to be a lot harder on the transmission due to the extra torque produced. I'm told the WTCC teams effectively rebuild the 'box after each race meeting. I'm not sure an H-pattern would be reliable enough.

[craig adams]

On year during the 1990's when the BMW's were the only rwd car in the BTCC at one point they were running 100kg extra base weight and they still won the championship that year!!!!

[obsessivecompulsive2]

To do something like that they'd have to make it like TC2000 or DTM where the cars run basically the same chassis and then just have the body's of the road cars they represent on them.
That;s why i like the DTM series,the whole weights thing is simple,every car is a dead equal match and it;s down to individual drivers to make the difference on the track!:cool:

This idea adopted for WTCC and BTCC would remove the need for this complicated(to me anyway) base weights ruling!

[kezbabybabe]

That;s why i like the DTM series,the whole weights thing is simple,every car is a dead equal match and it;s down to individual drivers to make the difference on the track!:cool:

This idea adopted for WTCC and BTCC would remove the need for this complicated(to me anyway) base weights ruling!
Yep, that's definitely a one series competition you want there. I know it complicated but at least it does something to keep the cars close together.

:)
Kerry

[obsessivecompulsive2]

Yep, that's definitely a one series competition you want there. I know it complicated but at least it does something to keep the cars close together.

:)
Kerry
My head hurts now,:rolleyes:

I think i;ll stop trying to change the whole worlds racing rules from my PC and leave it to the experts who(should) know what their doing.:)

[redshoes]

That;s why i like the DTM series,the whole weights thing is simple,every car is a dead equal match and it;s down to individual drivers to make the difference on the track!:cool:
Except of course all cars aren't equal and all weights aren't the same. The 2008, 2007 and 2006-spec cars all run at different base weights.

It's not really down to individual drivers either there's a lot of team-orders involved.

[kezbabybabe]

My head hurts now,:rolleyes:

I think i;ll stop trying to change the whole worlds racing rules from my PC and leave it to the experts who(should) know what their doing.:)
Just enjoy it for what it is. :D