The demise of the Production Class

[bramble]

With Alan Gow claiming the Production Class wont be running with the Tourers next year, and with such a small field this year, are we likely to see them running next year at all?

[Jamie P-E]

He didn't say that they won't be racing, he said that it's highly unlikely that the won't run so there is a small chance that they'll race in the BTCC in 2004 we'll just have to wait and see what the winter gossip provides.

Jamie

[Reynard]

Mmmm...

I wouldn't be surprised to see them given their own slot on the TOCA package since the Proddies are seen as a good step-up to the Touring class. In fact, I did read about them running seperately a while back...

With all the investment that TOCA have put in the Production Class, I can't see them throwing all that good work away.

[Craig Antill]

Investment...?? :confused:

[Les]

Use them, abuse them and then chuck them out :(

[Paul Rayner]

I don't think the Production class has a hope in hell of appearing even as a TOCA support next year. Some of the teams are moving up into Touring, and there's yet ANOTHER saloon car series appearing to pull drivers and funds away - the Supercar V8 series.

There will be Clios, Seats, ASCARs and V8s all vying for drivers and funds, there really isn't room for Production. As "Class B", it was just brought in in 2000 to make up the numbers. Now it's not needed to do that, it'll disappear, job done. There's not enough interest to keep it going, and there are plenty of other feeder series.

[Claw]

The NSC will return in 2004.

[Sim_Da_BTCC_Man]

Originally posted by Les
Use them, abuse them and then chuck them out :(

My thoughts exactly.:mad:

[Alan]

Hopefully the BTCC will have enough "touring" class cars next year that it will not need the proddies.

While I do have a certain amount of sympathy for them, we have to remember that the production cars were only ever a temporary measure.

I just hope that the current production teams have the resources, and the will to stay with us and move up to the next level.

[Sim_Da_BTCC_Man]

Originally posted by Alan
we have to remember that the production cars were only ever a temporary measure.


A temporary measure that took the perfectly good NSC, encorporated it into the BTCC, then recked it and is about to leave it on its own to rot.

[Alan]

Um - well, yes you might be right in some respects, but isn't the NSC out there still in another guise?

I don't have them to hand but I read alot of race reports in Autosport about races involving the old tourers and similar saloons. Are they not the same thing really?

I'm sorry if I am wrong Sim - there are so many race series out there!!!:)

There does need to be a serious feeder class or two into the BTCC - see my post on the general motorsport discussion forum on that subject (not that it seems to have generated alot of interest!!).

[Sim_Da_BTCC_Man]

Alan the NSC was disolved into the BTC-P I think?

Your right about there being to many race series out there, which I will comment on in the genral motorsport section in a min.

[Claw]

Originally posted by Sim_Da_BTCC_Man
Alan the NSC was disolved into the BTC-P I think?


Yeah and it can disolve off into NSC form again.

[bramble]

perhaps people should look on the brighter side - its the strength of the Touring Car grid that has led to this decison. :)

besides, without the TV coverage i bet most of the Production teams sponsers wouldn't sponser them.

[Paul Rayner]

Originally posted by Sim_Da_BTCC_Man
A temporary measure that took the perfectly good NSC, encorporated it into the BTCC, then recked it and is about to leave it on its own to rot.
It's been effectively replaced now by the Seat Cupra Championship. That's taken the same slot on the F3/GT package that the NSC use to have, and the cars are pretty similar. The championship fills the same space in the motorsports ladder as BTC Production, so I guess it's just time to move on. As I keep saying, there isn't enough room for all these saloon championships, and only the strongest will survive. If there was really enough interest to make BTC Production stay alive in some form then it would, but there isn't and it probably won't.

[Stuart]

The problem was that before BTC-Production was invented, the NSC was actually better than the BTCC. In the mid-eighties when Group A was faultering, many people suggested that the ultra successful Uniroyal Production Saloon Car Championship should become the BTCC.
While one make series show up the best drivers, it doesn't really seem to help breed new teams.
We need a production based series of some sort, preferably a bit more "Productiony" than the current cars, and preferably run to a multi-class format to ensure a good and diverse entry. This in turn would bring new manufacturers into the BTCC.
The still-born BRSCC Production Saloon car championship which would have run to true production spec cars would have been an ideal proving ground, but sadly it came to nought.

[Reynard]

Originally posted by Paul Rayner
It's been effectively replaced now by the Seat Cupra Championship. That's taken the same slot on the F3/GT package that the NSC use to have, and the cars are pretty similar.

Euhmmm, I've watched quite a bit of F3, Powertour and F3-GT in my time and I don't seem to remember seeing the NSC on the bill for any of those. Certainly not Powertour or F3-GT and I've done plenty of those.

The only time I've seen NSC was at the F3 Kent Cup meeting at Brands in April 1999 if my memory serves me correctly.

I do concur with everything that Stuart says though about the Uniroyal proddies though :) They were fun and were also where several good BTCC drivers cut their teeth i.e. Matt Neal & Kieth Odor...

[Stuart]

NSC suuported F3 and GT in 1999 and was on Powertour in 2000 when the likes of Simon Harrison, Mark Lemmer, Toni Ruokonnen, and Roger Moen were at the fore-front of the action.

[redshoes]

Originally posted by Reynard
Euhmmm, I've watched quite a bit of F3, Powertour and F3-GT in my time and I don't seem to remember seeing the NSC on the bill for any of those. Certainly not Powertour or F3-GT and I've done plenty of those.
When Powertour started in 2000 it's stated policy was to have three headline series - F3, GT and NSC

[cos]

Sorry to bring this thread up again but did anyone else see Mark Lemmer (Barwell boss) say on the ITV programme that there would be no Production class in 2004?

[Alan]

He certainly did say that Cos! But although a certain amount of reading between the lines is involved is anyone suprised?

[touringlegend]

No.

I've maintained my view since last year the BTCC needs to offload the Production class to truly be proffesional looking again.

Isn't it confusing on the TV to new fans, when they see a Peugeot 307 decked out in the bodykit and a big wing and then they see another one which looks like the one that passed them down the street earlier on?

[cos]

I don't think many people are surprised, especially now that the bigger budget Production teams like Barwell, Edenbridge and Varta can afford to upgrade their cars to ETCC spec. But it would be nice to have some sort of official announcement rather than just hearing it off the telly...

[Craig Antill]

Unless we get a glut of manufacturers committing for next year, I'd expect that announcement around the start of next season - presumably the media day which usually happens a couple of weeks prior to the start of the season. The reason is that the structure of next years championship will have to remain fluid until a suitable number of cars and drivers are committed - as a fair number of these will likely be privateers - who cannot usually commit until quite late on in the day - the organisers will need to hold on to the idea of the production class, no matter how much they dislike it, in case they need it to come to their rescue - yet again.

[Kelvin]

the organisers will need to hold on to the idea of the production class, no matter how much they dislike it, in case they need it to come to their rescue - yet again.

Production team owners and drivers need to know now, so they can make plans for next season and beyond, not just holding on in the hope that production will survive at the 11th hour.

What happend to Richard Wests plans of keeping the format/rules
the same until 2005 to maintain some stability?


Kelv.

[touringlegend]

Have never heard of that one Kelvin.

You sure you aren't confusing that with the fact that BTC Touring reg built cars will be eligible till the end of 2006 ?

[Craig Antill]

Think that he is - RW never said that the two classes would remain as far as I recall. Even if he did there is a new (old!) person at the helm now with their own ideas.

With regard to the teams needing to know what is happening - I think they are all *well* aware of what is planned. It's just that nothing is finalised yet and therefore nothing will be announced until it is. What happens if AG announces a return to a one-car formula now and only gets 15-18 entries? Gonna look a bit of a joke isn't it? That's why he's waiting on making an announcement until he's sure there's enough entries to run a single-class structure.

[Paul Rayner]

I actually think 15-18 is about the minimum requirement, there could be a good series with that. 15 as an absolute minimum though. They have to thin out the championships - there are so many it gets pretty confusing for any fans who are new to the sport, (You've got drivers, manufacturers, touring teams, production teams, independents, production drivers)

It seems that, with the existing Touring entrants, plus a few more ETCC cars in either works or independent form, they'd have enough to lose the production class. It was fun while it lasted, but was only ever introduced to boost the grids.