When will Matt Neal get penalised???

[akehursti]

Every race weekend it seems to be the same story...

Most drivers use craft, guile and the odd gentle nudge, to outwit their opponent and sneak through. Yet when Matt Neal finds himself behind a slightly slower car, he can't be bothered to try and overtake fairly, so just shoves them out of the way.

It was poor Johnny Adam's turn this weekend. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for a bit of bumping, barging and genuine racing incident when trying to pull off an overtaking move, but when you are following someone line astern and essentially push them out the way it is blatant cheating.

Neal seems to get away with this time and time again, especially through Clearways at Brands Hatch... I had hoped to log onto btcc.net this evening and find that he had been penalised for once, but sadly he's got away with pilfering a few more points AGAIN!

I had high hopes for Collard or Plato to give him a taste of him own medicine in the last race today, but alas it was not to be.

It's been great to see Gio's flamboyant, exciting and honest style win the title the last couple of years and I for one am hoping we will see a decent honest racer bring home the title again this year! Come on Turks!!!

[SpeedRacer]

What about Owy taking Harry out???????

And what about the damage Plato inflicted on Matts car?????

Need I carry on?

[Chris05]

It's up to Airwaves to file a complaint if they feel Neal was out of order. As much as I agree that he can be an overly aggressive driver, I don't think he meant for Adam to suffer as bad as he did. The rear wheel drive obviously becomes quite hard to control with a nudge like that. After the race he did say he regretted the move and tried to straighten him up (by nudging him again, I can see how that would work but maybe not the most logical thing to do), although so many cars were trying to get passed at that point someone else hit him too.

[bigred]

didnt he have contact with jelly at some stage too

[603270466]

i must say, although there were one or 2 slight clashes, i think credit goes to all the drivers for such a clean weekend.

Dont forget, the battles between Neal and PLato were fantastic, in the 2nd race, Matt could easily have pnted Plato every single lap at the hairpin, but i think his driving was clean.

The clash with Johnny Adam was as a result of Matt defending more than anything else as he had a gaggle of cars around him, and couldnt really have done anything else.
The O'Neill/Vaulkhard clash at the chicane was debateable, but tbh i see no fault as both were turning for the middle of the track and clashed together, a racing accident in my eyes.

And huge praise for Mr Collard for overtaking 15 cars, and all as clean as a whistle aswell.

These were by far the best driving standards by all so far this season

[PrincessRacer]

I think it's a wee bit unfair to focus solely on Matt. I think there are a number of leading drivers who are guilty of slightly over zealous moves when the red mist decends, and as a previous poster showed, if you look closely enough at any of them you will find a few incidents you could call into question.

I would hate to see these drivers being endlessly penalised. It is the close running, love rubbing, and occasional bit of 'oopsy' driving that makes BTCC such a wonderful series and I would hate for all the drivers to become so paranoid about being penalised that this beautiful, panel bashing, red mist descending sport becomes like watching drivers on the M25 on a Sunday afternoon.

Not saying I want them all to go thoroughly banana's, but I think we ought to forgive the odd moment of madness in the greater interest of the sport.

[buts64]

Totally agree with initial thread, seems there are different rules for different drivers, Neal's shunt on Adam was blatant he was not in a position to attempt a pass at the hairpin and knew exactly where to hit the BMW in order to turn it around causing Adam to lose a number of places as a result. Neal deserved to be penalised, Adam was penalised for a coming together with Plato at Brands which resulted in Plato losing only one place, however, Neal's shunt on Adam ruined his chances of a decent finish. The stewards need to apply the rules to all drivers and not favour the bigger names in the BTCC!!! Lets have a level playing field for all drivers.

[603270466]

as the saying goes "if it aint rubbing, it aint racing"

If these little clashes never happened, everyone would complain thats it's too boring, but the standards of driving these days are far far better than they were in the 90's, that really was a free-for-all for years.

Matt is a clean driver, fair enough, he does bump into a fair few people, but everyone will tell you, the best way to overtake in touring cars is just to nudge the rear corner of the car in front to squeeze open a gap to stick a car in to overtake, and it's just fact that Matt is by far the best at doing it. Theres nothing wrong with it, and it works. It's not as if he's ramming people off the road putting their safety at risk, he dont do that - what he does is fair.

I have to admit, i for one, am not a massive fan of Matt Neal, but i really admire his determination

[SpeedRacer]

Totally agree with initial thread, seems there are different rules for different drivers, Neal's shunt on Adam was blatant he was not in a position to attempt a pass at the hairpin and knew exactly where to hit the BMW in order to turn it around causing Adam to lose a number of places as a result. Neal deserved to be penalised, Adam was penalised for a coming together with Plato at Brands which resulted in Plato losing only one place, however, Neal's shunt on Adam ruined his chances of a decent finish. The stewards need to apply the rules to all drivers and not favour the bigger names in the BTCC!!! Lets have a level playing field for all drivers.
So how about Paul O'neill hitting Harry Vaulkhard and breaking his suspension? Doesnt he also deserve a penalty? That was a bigger hit as it put Harry out of the race and also meant it was push and go as to whether he would be in the next race.

[codename_47]

I am so tired of this forum's bias against Matt Neal.

In race 2 Plato was driving like a complete tool by blocking Neal left, right and centre hoping that the BMW behind would come into play and Matt would've been within his rights to give him a tap up the rear and be on his way, but he's thinking long term, thinking championship, and drove with restraint.

Race 3's accident was just that, an accident. Concertina effect, the BMW was slowing early due to the cars in front of him slowing down, Matt was braking late to defend his position from the car behind...contact.
Not blatent, just accidental.

There were many many worse crashes over the course of the ITV show, not least Collard punting Jordan in Cascades, but once again this forum likes to highlight Matt Neal as some kind of devil man.

Well no, this year he has been driving conservitively, thinking championship.
Didn't get involved with Plato at Brands because he knew it'd lead to an inevitable accident with Sir Punts-a-lot so backed off and settled for what he had. This is new 2009 Matt Neal, and a huge threat for the championship, imo, particularly if Giovanardi keeps underperforming.

[scott_240192]

What about Owy taking Harry out???????

And what about the damage Plato inflicted on Matts car?????

Need I carry on?
plato never once hit that t**t's car neal was pushing plato all race 2 and neal think's he is it as i see it neal should look at himself now and compare it to before 2005

[LeeCS]

after every race we get a ''Matt Neal cheated'' thread....BORING :rolleyes:


ive not seen anyone ever moan about Jason Plato and since 2001 hes been just as bad if not worse than Matt...(i used to like him but since 2001, around the time Muller refused to shake his hand ive noticed him to be a dirty driver almost every time he's raced in the btcc) maybe its because they are old school super touring era drivers?


maybe this is why they dont both get along....


im not sticking up for Matt one bit but its kinda lame he's the only driver getting the stick on this forum after EVERY weekend!

[320E90si]

Surprise surprise the knives are out again.

[SpeedRacer]

plato never once hit that t**t's car neal was pushing plato all race 2 and neal think's he is it as i see it neal should look at himself now and compare it to before 2005
So how come I have pics of parts of Neals rear bumper hanging off in race 3? The only person close enough behind him was plato!

[PrincessRacer]

Here Here, codename 47!! I may show as this being only my second post, but I was a member on this forum a few years ago when Matt achieved his back to back titles, and it was the Anti-Matt feeling that made me leave!

ALL of the drivers do it, and the people that diss Matt are usually the people who support Jason, and vice versa! Think we all need to realise that this sport just wouldn't be the same if EVERYBODY drove absolutely according to the rules ALL the time - regardless of who they are!!

Yes I agree, everybody ought to be dealt with the same, and I think that on the whole this happens. The powers that be that run this sport know what they are doing. They have a wealth of information at their disposal that we simply don't have. All we have, at the end of the day, is TV footage and the replays of incidents. Can we really say whether 2 incidents are the same or even similar just from that??? Of course not! They speak to both drivers, view the incident from all possible angles and view relevant telematries (however you spell that!!). We have to trust that they are in a far better position than us to make these decisions and when you look at their track record, I really think they do a good job!

[Sparkz]

So how come I have pics of parts of Neals rear bumper hanging off in race 3? The only person close enough behind him was plato!

I seen the part of the bumper hanging off, didnt see Plato hit him though (not saying he didnt hit him either), but one thing I did notice, Collard never once hit Neal, so that leaves Plato the only other driver that could have hit Neal.

[jason.lynn]

This thread is Boring....

If touring cars did not crash we would all miss it.

As for tapping rubbing what ever you want to call it, hey all do it Gio, Plato, Neal ect ect...

So if it is such a big problem for some people you always have the option to watch somthing else ? .

[bigred]

they all do ? i dont think thats 100% accurate. the issue on this thread is not the odd bump its the consistant race after race bumping that a certain driver uses to unsettle the car ahead so that he runs of line.

driving defensively is an art and there are rules to prevent weaving and blocking but plato legally made his car the width of a bus in race 2 despite neals efforts to bump him over

generally this year there has been less of it going on but neal manages to keep doing it. i for one find it very hard to understand how he gets away with it so often

nuff said on the subject well done turks and thommo

[Mondeo2]

they all do ? i dont think thats 100% accurate. the issue on this thread is not the odd bump its the consistant race after race bumping that a certain driver uses to unsettle the car ahead so that he runs of line.

driving defensively is an art and there are rules to prevent weaving and blocking but plato legally made his car the width of a bus in race 2 despite neals efforts to bump him over

generally this year there has been less of it going on but neal manages to keep doing it. i for one find it very hard to understand how he gets away with it so often

nuff said on the subject well done turks and thommo

It's called nerfing and it's all part of the sport. Three good races in my view, just need better results for the Aon boys now.

[macaluca]

Thought the standard of driving was a lot better (cleaner) today and I don't have an issue with anyone's driving.

[Chris05]

I am so tired of this forum's bias against Matt Neal.

In race 2 Plato was driving like a complete tool by blocking Neal left, right and centre hoping that the BMW behind would come into play and Matt would've been within his rights to give him a tap up the rear and be on his way, but he's thinking long term, thinking championship, and drove with restraint.

Well no, this year he has been driving conservitively, thinking championship.
Didn't get involved with Plato at Brands because he knew it'd lead to an inevitable accident with Sir Punts-a-lot so backed off and settled for what he had. This is new 2009 Matt Neal, and a huge threat for the championship, imo, particularly if Giovanardi keeps underperforming.

I don't think the entire forum is against Neal.. There are a lot of people that support him and also a lot that 'sit on the fence' as it were.

As Bigred pointed out, Plato had every right to block him, what are you saying, he should have just given up is postion? Neal was driving tactically as you said, thinking championship, and Plato was also driving tactically trying to defend! I don't think he was deliberatly (although I dare say it's something he knew would happen) trying to get Adam involved, we could all see how the BMWs were coming into their own in the latter stages of the races.

It's funny how you can refer to Plato as 'sir punts alot', as I think both him and Neal have driven with restraint so far this year.. If this is just simply refferring to his reputation, well I think you'll find Neal has one too!

[mattlovestbs]

Im gonna sit on the fence here -

both Plato and Neal have improved their driving standards over the last 2 years, i didnt see anything wrong with what they did...

[jonboy1066]

As much as you all know I'm no Neal fan I have to reign in my posts a bit after a previous telling off so have thought long and hard before posting here, I've rewound and re-viewed Neals "incdent" to make sure I'm sure.

I don't think Neals punt on Adam was intentional, however he did come from a good 3 or 4 car lengths behind Jonny before hitting him. And in the post race interview what's all this:

"I tried to push him back to make sure he was pointing in the right direction"

I don't believe that for one second!

At Donnington Vaulkhard was punished after a simillar incident with Gio and 3 drivers all got slaps on the wrist for their driving standards.

Yet Mr Neal seems to consistantly get away with poor driving standards and dangerous manouvers. His rear ending of Adam may have been unintentional but nevertheless I feel that if another driver had done the same thing they would find themselves up for a rollocking.

IMO this season the driving standards have been much higher than previous years yet at at least 3 weekends so far I have been of the impression that Matt Neal has been the only bad boy of the weekend.

Like the OP says:

"When will Matt Neal get penalised???"

I think it's high time.

[wannahunt]

There were tonnes of racing incidents today, if the stewards had to review every point of contact to scrutinise intent or accident can you imagine what we would be left with?
It would be a sterile competition where everybody follows around in a line and the guy who's fastest in qualifying wins every time. Remind you of another popular racing series?

Neal's old school, Plato's old school, they drive agressively, they win often because they are good at what they do.

If you want to watch processional racing with no contact through fear of penalty then go watch single seaters and pay 4 times what you pay to watch the magnificent BTCC and get an 8th of the action.

[jonboy1066]

I'm all for a bit of rubbing, door bashing and folding in the wing mirrors. That's what we all love about the BTCC.

What bothers me is the inconsistancy of the penalties vs the consistancy of Neals contact with other cars ending his opponents race going unchecked.

Neal vs Turkington @ Clearways Brands Hatch ended up with Turko sideways with a massive dent in the door of his car and his losing his position

Neal vs Jelly @ Donnington ended with Jellys car smashed up and his whole weekend over

Neal vs Adam @ Oulton ended with Adam stationary and damaged in an acceleration zone of the track and a whole field behind having to go agricultural to avoid more collisions.

Yet penalties have been handed out to Adam for his unintentional contact with Plato which only lost Plato one position and Plato smiling about it. And 3 drivers got fined and points on their liscences for minor contact at Donnington.

It seems unfair to me.

That's all I'm gonna say on the subject, the rest of the racing was fantastic and it was great to see Turks and Thommo do well.

[cookingfat]

I don't think Neals punt on Adam was intentional, however he did come from a good 3 or 4 car lengths behind Jonny before hitting him.
I am glad you posted that! Let's change the names and then see if anyone can see why the complaints??


I don't think Adams punt on Plato was intentional, however he did come from a good 3 or 4 car lengths behind Plato before hitting him.
Race three at Brands Hatch.. We all know what happened to Adams after that!

[scurcic5]

PMSL. Neal did it again? 4 out of 4 :D


One trick pony.

[tankman40]

Oh dear here we go again !!!!is it going to be like this for the rest of the season is it ?????

We are all entitled to our opinions ....who ever we support will never do wrong & will drive like a saint all season ....be a boring forum if we all agreed on it would'nt it !!!!;)

I think plato did i good job to keep Neal behind him,whats it called again?....oh i remember now its called Racing !!!!:)

[Mondeo2]

If you want to watch processional racing with no contact through fear of penalty then go watch single seaters and pay 4 times what you pay to watch the magnificent BTCC and get an 8th of the action.

I don't think single seaters have fear of contact for penalty reasons. It's more to do with safety and fear of launching yourself into the air like we saw at Monaco last week. That and single seaters rely on their aerodynamics a hell of alot more than touring cars, break them or lose them and your performance suffers heavily.

[SpeedRacer]

Can I ask all these people that think Matt Neal should be penalised one thing. Seen as Matt Neal isnt a 100% fan favourite should Paul O'Neill who has more fan support be penalised? Matt Neals contact only lost Jonny Adam 1 place Pauls contact on Harry put him out of the race.

[mbailey06]

All it is, is that when the more inexperienced drivers have incidents they more frequently get penalised than those more experienced when usually the type of accident is the same, so all some people are asking for (and I'm included in this) is that there is greater consistency in the penalties given.

[Reidy_fan]

folks, it really irks me when people say that rubbing, barging and nerfing is part of the btcc, the blue book clearly states that motorsport is non contact and whilst contact can happen acidentally (and often does) any deliberate contact is simply wrong. I havent seen yesterday's footage as I was sweating my body parts in the heat at knockhill but having watched btcc for years and club racing recently I have to say that the driving standards in club racing are far better, perhaps it is because the clubbies dont have a trailer full of body panels and the dosh to pay for them. to those that say you cant have close racing and overtaking without contact they are talking rot, if you have 30 drivers that are prepared to give it their all and still respect each other then you can

BTCC driving standards have improved a bit but there is certain drivers Matt Neal included that really need to read the blue book and start adhering to it and the clerks need to clamp down far more on deliverate contact, yes afer donington 3 drivers got a fine and a visit to the clerks office (aka the naughty boys room) but this needs far more consistency, any driver that breaks the rules should be treated in the same manner. I dont believe that any clerk would show bias as to be a clerk you have to have spent a long long time on the bank picking up the pieces literally

finally for any fans that love the bumping stuff, come and join us, you might feel different after a day working hard with very few breaks. or go and watch the stuff on the short ovals where contact is allowed and encouraged

[kezbabybabe]

As my good friend Eunos pointed out to me, there was no safety car needed for any of the BTCC races...unlike the supports...

I won't express an opinion on what's happened in relation to Matt Neal, but those that were with me at the weekend know full well what I think on the matter :rolleyes:

[big g]

i think we can all speculate on who should and who should not be penalized for various racing incedents ,but it is down to the race stewards to investigate and marshalls to report such incedents,if they feel that no action is required then so be it ,for which ever driver it is .
i think that there is too much axe grinding going on:(

[mike_bax]

OK, I'm not a VXR fan, never have been, and probably never will be.
I'm not a fan of Matt Neal either, never have been, and probably never will be.
Yes, I agree, in the past, he's been overly agrressive in his driving style, and has got away with murder.................

..............but at Oulton, I thought he was quite restrained, although still agressive, he also backed off at times.

He could've well and truly binned Plato on more that one occassion.

I am surprised to find myself saying this, but give Matt Neal a break, this time (unusually), he doesn't deserve all this flak (cos he wasn't the only driver doing it)

[obsessivecompulsive2]

As long as Matt Neal is part of this championship,then this debate will run on and on,i like most of you on here am just a spectator at the end of the day,what i see from trackside may very well look like blatant pushing,shoving,nerfing,whatever you want to call it,but i am NOT the Clerk of the Course and penalties are solely his/her decision in these matters.We can all go on about the way Matt drives till the cows come home,but it won't change anything,that's the way he races,like it or not.Matt used to be the hero of the BTCC in the 90's as an independant,i wonder what happened to all that support??? I personally am not a fan of Matt either,i never have been,but i won't come on here and slate the way he races.

[Mondeo2]

folks, it really irks me when people say that rubbing, barging and nerfing is part of the btcc, the blue book clearly states that motorsport is non contact and whilst contact can happen acidentally (and often does) any deliberate contact is simply wrong.
Contact to a degree (rubbing and nerfing) was given the ok in the BTCC years ago, to my knowlegde the ruling has never been rescinded.

[Freddie]

As the thread is titled "When will Matt Neal be penalised?" it is that subject that should be discussed.
No, this is not another Matt bashing. If he can get away with stuff that lesser mortals are hauled in from of the stewards for that is not his fault. He does seem to be protected though. If he loses out due to a tap his assailant is docked places and he regains the points. If the boot is on the other foot nothing is done. To the observer this stinks of bias. OK I don't have the telemetry or the rest of the info so maybe it is just he is always in the wrong place or the other drivers are ganging up on him.
Is it just coincidence that he nerfs Turkington into a spin, Jelly into the wall, Adams into a spin and then drives into him to get him out of the way. So many incidents but no punishment when others have a few and are penalised. That is the point of this thread.

[SpeedRacer]

Ah I give up. I will now only post in Support races section and the Other motorsport section of this site as I am fed up of the Very Rose tinted glasses people wear.

[kezbabybabe]

Ah I give up. I will now only post in Support races section and the Other motorsport section of this site as I am fed up of the Very Rose tinted glasses people wear.
Come on Matt, everyone is welcome to their opinions, there's no need to refuse to post in a thread just because others don't agree with your view :)

The fact that we can have an open discussion about different aspects of the sport with out it turning into a slanging match is testament to the maturity of our members. :)

[SpeedRacer]

Come on Matt, everyone is welcome to their opinions, there's no need to refuse to post in a thread just because others don't agree with your view :)

The fact that we can have an open discussion about different aspects of the sport with out it turning into a slanging match is testament to the maturity of our members. :)
Kez I know people are allowed there views but as has been said. Three meetings down three threads saying Matt Neal is getting away with murder. I point out some worse incidents from the weekend and they brush them under the rug as its there drivers doing it. Also if you think this isnt a slanging match you may want to check the first page of this when someone personally insults Matt Neal. Of which I hope he gets more then a warning for.

[1.9 TDI]

It's true some people get a bit personal, but you can always ignore them ;)
There are alot, probably most of the people here (I haven't read the whole thread yet, too lazy :D) who are having a decent discussion about the consistancy of penalties. If you disagree with them you can say or you can ignore the thread, but you shouldn't let those who go too far put you off the whole forum :)

[mbailey06]

Some people are just more passionate about picking up on some drivers behaviour more than others because of certain rivalries and supporting certain teams. Just because some don't like one driver, doesn't mean its a personal vendetta against them, its just their opinion about that driver, and its not just down to the title of this thread. All the majority of people on this thread are saying is that certain drivers (not just Neal) seem to get away with incidents more that other drivers do when in some peoples eyes it is deserving of a penalty. Anyway what sort of a forum would this be if everyone had the same opinion and it was all "luvvy duvvy" all the time? Everyone has a different opinion, and I like this forum because when people disagree, they talk about in a way that allows people to say their side without it turning into all out war on the subject. If you like Matt Neal, good for you, if others don't, good for them too, if people want a healthy discussion on the rules and whether drivers should be penalised for certain incidents let them as its not the end of the world if they disagree.

My two cents

Matt

[scott_240192]

So how come I have pics of parts of Neals rear bumper hanging off in race 3? The only person close enough behind him was plato!
and your god neal who toke off adam which in turn slowed every1 up and that plato was up the inside of gio who was up the inside of neal so how did plato hit him bearing in mind plato had no front end damage !

[mbailey06]

and your god neal who toke off adam which in turn slowed every1 up and that plato was up the inside of gio who was up the inside of neal so how did plato hit him bearing in mind plato had no front end damage !

Guys no need to take lumps out of each other or the thread will get closed. Just treat each others opinions objectively and get on with it.

[Sparkz]

Im probably Matt Neal's biggest fan, but after Donington im keeping my nose clean and not getting involved in this debate.

I know ive posted earlier, but it was my opinion on who left Neal's rear (im not even sure if it was part of the bumper) bumper hanging off for the duration of the race, but thats about all im going to say.

[mbailey06]

Im probably Matt Neal's biggest fan, but after Donington im keeping my nose clean and not getting involved in this debate.

I know ive posted earlier, but it was my opinion on who left Neal's rear (im not even sure if it was part of the bumper) bumper hanging off for the duration of the race, but thats about all im going to say.

Yes but Plato's bumper was also gnawed at by Neal for the majority of race 2, they did it to each other, each to no avail. Can everyone let it die? (Although I've heard from some people that Neal was apologetic to Adam afterwards). And yes he is the cleanest he has been for some time this year, (although I would still prefer Turks to win!!)

[PrincessRacer]

Good Heavens Above!!! There I was thinking we were all racing fans first and foremost!!! Well said, mbailey re not taking lumps out of each other! I realise that we are all passionate about our sport, but come on, in a thread where we are concerned about driving standards and ettiquete, and the penalties imposed on the same, perhaps we should be considering our own manners and etiquette!!!

Maybe if people are concerned re perceived inconsistencies in penalties, it is a question for Alan Gow. As I said previously, we have only the view the TV channel chooses to give us, or the view from our seat at the track. Is this really enough for us to make an entirely accurate decision, or should we rely on the people who have multiple views of the incident, as well as first hand accounts and telemetries to make the right decision when these things happen?? Of course if we are concerned that they are not making the right decisions, or that there appear to be inconsistencies, we should have the right to request further information, and I am sure Mr Gow will be able to point us in the right direction to get an answer that satisfies.

I just think that invariably those who support Matt will always insist that actually the sun shines from his rear end and that (regardless of Jason's relative position on the track) it must have been Plato's fault, and those who dislike Matt will insist upon his immediate banning from the world in general, with all those in between choosing to keep their heads down because its safer that way!!! Unfortunately, this doesn't get us anywhere, and just gets people riled at one another.

....and believe it or not I have been a HUGE fan of Matt Neal since the early 90's, but can actually admit that sometimes he isn't perfect, and that Jason isn't the Antichrist, he is just another aggressive driver of the Old School variety, like Matt, Rob Collard and Anthony Reid, and that the lack of love between the two is probably more because they are so goddamn alike!!!!


So, in conclusion (see, I do shut up eventually!!) I think that people have raised some interesting points regarding the inconsistency of penalties, particularly given the penalty handed down to Mr Adams for his move on Mr Plato, and would welcome the opportunity to review the stewards decision for each incident to fully understand the differences. Does anyone have any idea where that information would be available??

[CharlieJ]

Having just watched the TV coverage of the incident, I will now add my two-pennorth.

As for the damage to Matt's rear bumper, that appears to have been inflicted by his team-mate as they exited the hairpin - nothing to do with Jason ;)

And while I've been known to criticise Matt's driving occasionally, it certainly didn't look like a deliberate knock - Matt kept a tight line while Jonny went wide then cut back. Yes, it could possibly be considered careless in the same way as the incidents that attracted penalties at Donny, and I can see why the question was asked, but the stewards have access to more information than just the TV footage.

So let's all play nicely folks :) .

[Mad Professor]

i think we can all speculate on who should and who should not be penalized for various racing incedents ,but it is down to the race stewards to investigate and marshalls to report such incedents,if they feel that no action is required then so be it ,for which ever driver it is .
i think that there is too much axe grinding going on:(

Well said that man!

In 2006 I felt that messrs Neal, Plato and Collard all frequently came close to deserving to be penalised but it seems to me that things have calmed down considerably since then.

One should remember that every time a driver nudges another the nudger runs a number of risks:

He might damage his own car and compromise his own race.
He may misjudge it and spin the nudgee out of the race. in that case the nudger would almost certainly himself be excluded from the result.
He might cause an incident resulting in injury to one or another driver. Whilst all the drivers want to win, none of them wants to do so at the expense of injuring another driver.

I was going to put in my two penn'orth last night when I got home, but I really couldn't be bothered. The simple answer is that Matt Neal, like any other driver, will be penalised when the clerk of the course and/or the stewards, after due consideration of ALL the evidence and without the bias that one detects in this thread, feel that some kind of penalty is necessary.

[scott_240192]

look i would just like 2 appolagise for my comment on matt neal in future i shall chose my words more carefully

[Tim.Lad]

Lol usually me starting these threads but i will just offer my thoughts today

Re Neal`s rear damage From watching the TV footage it looked to me like Gio hit Matt Neal when said incident was taking place not by anything Plato may or may not have done..

Re Neal vs Andam`s well this time i think he just got it wrong it did not look deliberate to me it looked like an over cooked lunge..

[Eunos]

All i'll say is im pretty sick of Neal always getting away with Shunting people off especially when other's get Punished..

No im not saying it's ok to Shunt people off, I just think Neal shouldnt get extra Treatment, Ofcourse there will always be Contact in this kind off Thing.

Vaulkhard, Jordan and Adam were all Punished at Donny for Incident's.

Yet Neal got Diddly Squat for The Jelley incident which could have been Potentially Nastier than what it was. I know he didnt mean it, But im pretty sure neither did the others ¬.¬

Im no Neal fan and have no Interest in him Winning the Championship, But im not using that as an excuse as to why he shouldnt get extra Treatment :p

I think Jones (Who i like) Taking Spinning Jelley in Race 3 was abit Naughty too :p

Ah well, Every series needs that Controversial Driver and Neal is playing the part just Fine :D

[mikeymike]

with all this moaning about a little contact it a good job alot of the people on here only go too the btcc as they would have a heart attack if they went to a club event and saw some of the contact that happens there.

[Eunos]

Or just watch the Clio's :p

[mikeymike]

Or just watch the Clio's :p

not even close.

[simon1220]

Im so disapointed in this forum sometimes. I havent been on since Saturday, but could just guess that there would be a Neal bashing thread ..... there always is ..... for no reason at all. He didnt do anything wrong for me .... YET AGAIN :rolleyes:

[btccbryn]

Ah well, Every series needs that Controversial Driver and Neal is playing the part just Fine :D


Took the words right out my mouth mate hes a natural lol.

[jp-no1]

Soon I Hope

[1.9 TDI]

Im so disapointed in this forum sometimes. I havent been on since Saturday, but could just guess that there would be a Neal bashing thread ..... there always is ..... for no reason at all. He didnt do anything wrong for me .... YET AGAIN :rolleyes:

This isn't a Neal bashing thread, some people just saw it as an opportunity to do so ;)
Fair enough if you don't think he did anything wrong, but a lot of people do and they should be allowed to have their say, though I agree that some take it a bit far...

[Pops]

I didn't see much wrong with the way Matt drove on Sunday - and not for the lack of opportunity to get involved, particularly when he was nose to tail with Jason Plato. There were a few racing incidents, but if the Clerk of the Course is happy then so should we be.

[Reidy_fan]

just watched the coverage in ITV 4 and it was a robust move by matt on jonny, if he got a driving standards flag then fine, that was all he deserved.

will be interesting at Knockhill when there is 20 thousand scottish fans there, should give jonny another 5bph. remember bannockburn matthew:D :D :D :D

[lukeozade0405]

He does seem to get away with a hell of a lot but then again that's always been his driving style.

[BTCCROCKS]

I just watched the highlights, and I found nothing wrong with his driving standards

[btccsmurf]

Hey guys
I'm relatively new to the scene (only started watching WTCC/BTCC/F1 since last season). I have to mostly agree with the OP on this topic. I do not have any real favorite drivers so I have no bias against Matt Neal the driver. But I do think there are several things going on:

The FWD cars seem alot harder to spin out esp. compared to the RWD cars. I think that a few drivers keep this mind and use it to their advantage.

If you look at the races, overall the RWD drivers you will see they are much less likely to initiate contact. I think this reflects the above fact and they drive defensively.

I remember all through last season how often I saw that VX knock people out in some races.

A bit of rubbing and knashing is fine by me and I think just a fact of the sport (and sometimes fun to watch), but it can't be to the level where it spins someone around and knocks them out of the race or loses them 10 places.

If you look at the impact that Neal did on the BMW, that was a pretty hard impact, not a nudge. Look at the amount of damage it did on his own car. We will never know his true intentions, but clearly he should have let off the gas a bit as most other drivers would have.

His post race interview about the incident was unintelligible. He was trying to 'nudge him back into the race to straighten him out?" ? Sorry but that doesn't make any sense.

[jason.lynn]

Hey guys
I'm relatively new to the scene (only started watching WTCC/BTCC/F1 since last season). I have to mostly agree with the OP on this topic. I do not have any real favorite drivers so I have no bias against Matt Neal the driver. But I do think there are several things going on:

The FWD cars seem alot harder to spin out esp. compared to the RWD cars. I think that a few drivers keep this mind and use it to their advantage.

If you look at the races, overall the RWD drivers you will see they are much less likely to initiate contact. I think this reflects the above fact and they drive defensively.

I remember all through last season how often I saw that VX knock people out in some races.



A bit of rubbing and knashing is fine by me and I think just a fact of the sport (and sometimes fun to watch), but it can't be to the level where it spins someone around and knocks them out of the race or loses them 10 places.

If you look at the impact that Neal did on the BMW, that was a pretty hard impact, not a nudge. Look at the amount of damage it did on his own car. We will never know his true intentions, but clearly he should have let off the gas a bit as most other drivers would have.

His post race interview about the incident was unintelligible. He was trying to 'nudge him back into the race to straighten him out?" ? Sorry but that doesn't make any sense.

Think you may have forgotten a certain BMW of Stephen Jelly.....he dosent mind a bit of contact !!!! . Personally i dont think VXR racing are any worse at causing incidents compared to the other teams. At times they all have a little niggle as you say its racing.

[Neotax]

Hey guys
I'm relatively new to the scene (only started watching WTCC/BTCC/F1 since last season). I have to mostly agree with the OP on this topic. I do not have any real favorite drivers so I have no bias against Matt Neal the driver. But I do think there are several things going on:

The FWD cars seem alot harder to spin out esp. compared to the RWD cars. I think that a few drivers keep this mind and use it to their advantage.

If you look at the races, overall the RWD drivers you will see they are much less likely to initiate contact. I think this reflects the above fact and they drive defensively.

I remember all through last season how often I saw that VX knock people out in some races.

A bit of rubbing and knashing is fine by me and I think just a fact of the sport (and sometimes fun to watch), but it can't be to the level where it spins someone around and knocks them out of the race or loses them 10 places.

If you look at the impact that Neal did on the BMW, that was a pretty hard impact, not a nudge. Look at the amount of damage it did on his own car. We will never know his true intentions, but clearly he should have let off the gas a bit as most other drivers would have.

His post race interview about the incident was unintelligible. He was trying to 'nudge him back into the race to straighten him out?" ? Sorry but that doesn't make any sense.

fully agree .. i think matt is using this disadvange to his own advantage thou

reminds of another racer .. the master of nudging reidy

[Sparkz]

Im suprised that people are still talking about this :confused:

[bigred]

quote from adam story on new pages

"There could even have been another third in race three had he not spun in a collision with series leader Matt Neal – an incident that officials will look into at Croft this coming weekend."

so apparently we arent the only ones still talking about it

[Reidy_fan]

saw that big red;) thing is how can matt be disciplined a fine wont hurt, only thing is to put points on his race license and when he hits 12 give him a race ban.

chances on sunday night there will be the same thread on here, the sooner BTCC drivers take it upon themselves to obey the blue book the better but it hasnt up to now, perhaps alan gow could don the headmasters hat and make any offending drivers write out the sections of the book on contact like a school punishment:D :D :D

[bigred]

place demotion on the starting grid for race one? 30 sec time penalty? im sure if they feel a sanction is needed they will have plenty of options

[scott_240192]

place demotion on the starting grid for race one? 30 sec time penalty? im sure if they feel a sanction is needed they will have plenty of options
the worst he'll get is 6 place grid demotion

[simon1220]

Matt Neal SHOULDNT get a punishment, WONT get a punishment and he is a CLEAN driver.

:mad:

[turk06]

even that could be quite damaging when you are challenging for the title

[Sparkz]

"There could even have been another third in race three had he not spun in a collision with series leader Matt Neal

Whats to say if he didnt have contact with Neal, that he wouldnt have had contact with anybody else? :rolleyes:

[turk06]

Matt Neal SHOULDNT get a punishment, WONT get a punishment and he is a CLEAN driver.

:mad:
cmon i understand that you may be a huge matt neal fan, but you cant actually be serious when you say that matt neal is a clean driver, i am not saying he is a dirty driver but he does like the odd bit of contact to enhance his chances. look at brands hatch where lap after lap he bumped other drivers from behind on the appraoch to clearways, how can anyone defend against a shunt at the rear on the turn in a braking zone? a slight tap on the turn and momentum is lost and tyres are dirty, all the skill in te world cant clean tyres up quicker or regain a good drive out of a corner when a driver is off line after a nudge from behind.

[simon1220]

cmon i understand that you may be a huge matt neal fan, but you cant actually be serious when you say that matt neal is a clean driver, i am not saying he is a dirty driver but he does like the odd bit of contact to enhance his chances. look at brands hatch where lap after lap he bumped other drivers from behind on the appraoch to clearways, how can anyone defend against a shunt at the rear on the turn in a braking zone? a slight tap on the turn and momentum is lost and tyres are dirty, all the skill in te world cant clean tyres up quicker or regain a good drive out of a corner when a driver is off line after a nudge from behind.

First sentence there is completely wrong .... I am not a Matt Neal fan in the slightest :rolleyes:

If he was a DIRTY driver .... he would have been consistantly reprimanded by the officials, getting fines and penalties ... but he doesnt!! The officials think he drives fine, there the ones in charge and there decision is fine. They say hes clean ... HES CLEAN! The fans know this is Matt Neal, its how he drives and there nothing wrong with it. If drivers dont like it, why the hell dont they do it back to him. He gets away with it, so will they .... unless they dont have the same level of skill he does and they end up hitting people off. He is a top driver, he knows what hes doing, he doesnt endanger anyone and his driving style brings some excitement into the series ......

[turk06]

i am not saying that he is not skilled, i just dont think its right that he got away with the same move into clearways again and again. was no one else watching that?
at the end of the day we all have our own opinions and we will never agree on things that we feel pasionate about so this is my last post on this thread before world war three breaks out:p

[Sparkz]

I seen it, and didnt see anything wrong with it.
He nudges the driver off the racing line so he can have a fighting chance of earning a position down the straight to Paddock Hill Bend, not into a barriers at Clearways.

[Eunos]

That Neal...So Dirty ¬.¬

Wouldnt hurt to have a Wash every now and then :p

anyway this Argument is getting old and Tedious, We'll bring it up again when he nudges somebody off at Croft ;)

[simon1220]

i am not saying that he is not skilled, i just dont think its right that he got away with the same move into clearways again and again. was no one else watching that?


The reason why he "got away" with it time after time .... if because there if nothing wrong with it :p

[turk06]

That Neal...So Dirty ¬.¬

Wouldnt hurt to have a Wash every now and then :p

anyway this Argument is getting old and Tedious, We'll bring it up again when he nudges somebody off at Croft ;)
i did say that i wouldnt post again but i really wanted to make a post about his washing habits and you beat me to it:p

[editor8]

I think it's time for this thread to be closed.