'NGTC' - the new BTCC regulations

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

Story is on the main page. Wasn't epxecting this. On the face of it, it seems great. Bigger cars again, turbos & wastegates and cheaper too.

I just wonder where the manufacturer influnce comes into it given so many standardised parts.

[cookingfat]

Suppose thats one way to get rid of the BMW's.:confused:

[Reidy_fan]

just read through the articles and alan gow has just pulled off a masterstroke, performance will be equal, development costs slashed, ready to run engines and running gear. this should encourage a lot more teams and drivers onto the grid. okay it means the end of the rwd beemers but it opens the door to so many more cars and as build costs will be so much lower and running costs slashed. okay it is in some ways making the btcc a silouette championship but there will be so much more reliance on driver talent as opposed to how big the budget is

Mr Gow i take my hat off to you and your team, you have done it a again

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

As you say, this is a brilliant piece of work and it puts other Touring series to shame (as always).

It does seem to be heading towards a silhouette series but it's so early that I'll not assume too much yet. Hopefully there is scope for some manufacturer 'DNA' rather than just a shell.

Can't wait though

[Sparkz]

Vauxhall may return as early as 2011 after this news :cool:

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

A Mondeo would be excellent......but what livery?....:D

[Mondeo2]

just read through the articles and alan gow has just pulled off a masterstroke, performance will be equal, development costs slashed, ready to run engines and running gear. this should encourage a lot more teams and drivers onto the grid. okay it means the end of the rwd beemers but it opens the door to so many more cars and as build costs will be so much lower and running costs slashed. okay it is in some ways making the btcc a silouette championship but there will be so much more reliance on driver talent as opposed to how big the budget is

Mr Gow i take my hat off to you and your team, you have done it a again

The only bit that would be similar to a silhouette series would be any teams that decide to make use of the TOCA engines. I can see more manufacturers and independant entries being tempted to the series. As you say Alan and his team have pulled off a masterstroke and are to be congratulated. It will be a shame to lose BMW entries further down the line but not everyone can be catered for, who knows BMW may break their trend by then and produce a fwd car. I like the relaxing of the body shape/number of doors ruling. Again allows for more scope for manufacturers having cars suitable for the series. I can't wait.
:D

[Reidy_fan]

if the TOCA engine is good straight from the box it would make a heck of a lot of sense for the smaller indy teams to use it as they reckon 20k to buy, 25k for a season and 8k to rebuild, that looks pretty good value for me. you are going to have to source your own bodyshell but almost everything else is toca or off the shelf, wouldnt mind seeing the parts prices broken down but you must be looking at under 60k to build the car

folks single make series offer the best racing anyway as there isnt the performance gaps so this should be very good

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

It'll be interesting to see what new manufacturers express an interest given that the changes were ok'd by the current teams and not hopeful entries (which is how it should be really).

Is this the type of series Vauxhall, Ford, Volvo etc would see benefit in entering?

[Jackal]

I think they would. It still makes choice of models of car plus engines (from a manufacturer's broad family with options to alter bore/stroke to get up/down to 2 litres if you read it). That's hardly one-make or silhouette.

Great set of regs that halve costs and actually propably increases the variety. It hardly gets rid of the BMWs either. They can still compete equally with the NGTC cars til 2013.

These regs also bring back bigger "touring" cars which Alan Gow states is probably what the fans prefer over the stubby hatchbacks.

[Mondeo2]

As you say, this is a brilliant piece of work and it puts other Touring series to shame (as always).

It does seem to be heading towards a silhouette series but it's so early that I'll not assume too much yet. Hopefully there is scope for some manufacturer 'DNA' rather than just a shell.

Can't wait though

Manufacturers will keep their DNA being able to use their own engines or an engine from within their brand.
To specify everyone use the stock TOCA engine would have been suicidal in my view. This way the independant teams have a choice depending on how much they want to or can spend. Plus manufacturers have a series to show off there wares. I know people have said in the past that we don't need to have manufacturers in the series, but I'm sure the drivers would much rather be paid to drive by a manufacturer than have to find sponsorship. It gives them something extra to aim for.
All the suspension, gearboxes etc are usually sourced from different manufacturers with no car manufacturer DNA involved so it makes sense to have common suppliers for each item and have spares at the tracks.

[nicemms91]

Intially it looks good, hopefully it will bring the championship back to the super touring days with cars from most of the big manufacturers.

THe only bit that concerns me is the 'silhouette' bit as the one thing that makes the BTCC good is the similarity of the cars to the road going versions.

[HowardJacks]

I've only had a quick read through but it is a very exciting set of regulations for the future.

My initial thoughts are that these cars are going to be like the BTC spec cars in terms of simple body shells and standardized parts which should keep costs down. I remember Matt Neal complained a little when the S2000 spec was introduced because the cars cost a lot more to develop than the BTC cars. Then to add to the basic spec we are now having bigger cars and more power to bring more speed and hopefully get us to super touring style racing again. These regulations will be great for the teams to design and build their own cars and compete. However having small teams and pay drivers is the opposite of the 1990's and I hope we end up with a competitive field. I do not know how manufacturers will like it but for the fans and the current teams it is sounding fantastic.

[Les]

it does all sound interesting.
It will be good to see more cars with boots rather than hatchbacks.

And later on the boost option sounds very good.

[kezbabybabe]

Ooo exciting times ahead me thinks ;)

[Marc W]

Intially it looks good, hopefully it will bring the championship back to the super touring days with cars from most of the big manufacturers.

THe only bit that concerns me is the 'silhouette' bit as the one thing that makes the BTCC good is the similarity of the cars to the road going versions.


Although it does also say


Chassis
Production bodyshell with a standardised roll cage design/specification.

Which would seem to indicate they will still look like the production versions.

[tin-top fan]

The regulations do look good. It will be interesting if other series follow the btcc's lead, namely the swedish, danish and world championships.

Reading between the lines as well, I guess this is pretty much confirmation of no manufacturer entries next year ( as no manufacturer would like to build a car a year before the regs change...).

[obsessivecompulsive2]

Once again TOCA,Alan Gow and all the team behind the BTCC have pulled off another incredible change to BTCC,looking very optimistically at the future of this series,i hope to see grids in excess of 30 cars,some manufacturer entries,but a lot more independants seeing as the costs are going to be halved,this racing series has always been the pioneer when it comes to succesfull changes to it's regulations and i can see the hey day of the "supertourer" era coming back,this whole thing should skyrocket and will once again put every other racing series in the shade,i can't wait to see how it all looks come 2011!! :D :D :D :cool:

[Alan Gow]

Although it does also say



Which would seem to indicate they will still look like the production versions.

Guys, I really don't know why some people think it is some type of a silhouette formula?!

The cars will use normal production bodyshells, just as they do now. The reference to silhouette is only with regard to how many doors the car can have: they can be 2 or 3 door models as long as they share the same silhouette (i.e. body shape profile) as the 4/5 door model.

Just to illustrate what that means; the current Honda Civic 3 door shares the same silhouette (i.e. body shape profile) as the 5 door.

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

I think I've mistaken what people are meaning by silhouette. I assumed it means the mechanicals are standard with a manufacturers shell put on top.

[bigred]

just had a quick look thru the new proposals, generally think they are a good thing but i do have a couple of doubts. rear wheel drive excluded, this will almost certainly rule out bmw as i cant see them ever producing a front wheel drive. this is pretty large slap in the mouth for perhaps one of the greatest touring car marques. secondly i think the regionalisation of btcc again is a brave move, s2000 was brought in to give more manufacturers access to the btcc with cars they develop to run in other series most notably the wtcc. i also worry that we will end up with cars that under the skin are identical, space frames with some body panels welded on

[Editor1]

It might also be useful if people read the Q&A with Alan (particularly on the point of rwd).

Ed1

[Daniel_ColU]

With the exception of the minimum length, i'm all for the changes. With the S2000 spec I've always had the fear that the BTCC would eventually end up like the WTCC which is just a load of BMW's and Seat's and the odd Chevy. Especially as the grid is starting to become a bit of a WTCC graveyard

I really don't like the 4.4m length rule though becasue I like the mix of hatchbacks, coupes and saloon cars. By bringing in this rule it's taking away the variety which is one of the reasons I like the BTCC and not the WTCC.

Both the Civic's and Leon's are 4.3m, so they'd be gone for starters... :mad:

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

Personally I've always thought the Civics looked too small for the BTCC. Focus and Leon are a decent size for it but the Chevrolet and Vectra are perfect.

[Reidy_fan]

I think I've mistaken what people are meaning by silhouette. I assumed it means the mechanicals are standard with a manufacturers shell put on top.

that was my interpretation with standard sub-frames, suspension and running gear. the btc regs used a lot of standard parts

either way it is going to be awfy good:D

[adzerrancoon]

For me, the jury is out. I think we will have to wait and see how things pan out. At the end of the day alan knows what he is doing, and is proven to be able to come up with the regs that work. Also a move back towards what I would call a "proper" touring car in size is a good one for me. Not too sure about turbos, but anything that will reduce costs to teams can only be a good thing. Bit disappointed about no rwd, as bmw are well represented at the moment. As I said, wait and see.

[Mondeo2]

It all seems simplistic and cost saving to me and all for the good of the sport and championship.
WTCC has become farcical with it's weight penalties etc. for rwd, turbo deisel and anything else they could find.
What better than to have evenly matched cars, all of the same weight, power etc. alot easier to police for TOCA, racing will be alot closer and grids should be bigger still.
As I pointed out to Alan in the questions and answers section, he should be an adviser to our government. I can see this creating alot more teams interested in joining the championship which will create jobs.

[btccbryn]

It all seems simplistic and cost saving to me and all for the good of the sport and championship.
WTCC has become farcical with it's weight penalties etc. for rwd, turbo deisel and anything else they could find.
What better than to have evenly matched cars, all of the same weight, power etc. alot easier to police for TOCA, racing will be alot closer and grids should be bigger still.
As I pointed out to Alan in the questions and answers section, he should be an adviser to our government. I can see this creating alot more teams interested in joining the championship which will create jobs.


Totally agre with you there mate in all its great news for the championship.

[Chris05]

Role on 2011...

With regard to BMW, it's hardly a kick in the teeth, as Alan Gow says, the teams currently using them are not manufacturer based, and could, by the looks of the new regs, easily change to a different car, and would probably want to within 4 years anyway. There are also plenty of other series where BMW could enter as a manufacturer or be run as independants (as long as they don't all start using these rules)!

So could we be seeing the return of some other different makes of car? doesn't have to be a manufacturer entry but I'm thinking Peugeot, Honda, Volvo etc etc? And also some new! It's all very exciting! :)

[Marc W]

I wasn't mistaken at all I was pointing out to the earlier poster that it isn't going to a Silhouette series as the rules stated prodcution shells!:o

[chancey154]

the new regs are definately a radical step away from the new regs proposed by the wtcc, many people are stating the wtcc is a farse and i totally agree, however if it was not for the wtcc, we would not have the chevy lacetti the bmw or even the leon, these new rules therefore could either help or hinder a new manufacturer entry for the btcc, instead of building a car that can be raced in numerous series they will have to build numerous cars for numerous series.
I am not taking anything away from the ngtc rules i think there brilliant, but wtcc is where the manufacturers, bar vauxhall and volvo in the stcc, are at the moment.

We will just have wait to see, ps loving the fact were getting back to bigger saloon cars, someone build a mondeo please!!!

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

Role on 2011...

With regard to BMW, it's hardly a kick in the teeth, as Alan Gow says, the teams currently using them are not manufacturer based, and could, by the looks of the new regs, easily change to a different car, and would probably want to within 4 years anyway. There are also plenty of other series where BMW could enter as a manufacturer or be run as independants (as long as they don't all start using these rules)!

So could we be seeing the return of some other different makes of car? doesn't have to be a manufacturer entry but I'm thinking Peugeot, Honda, Volvo etc etc? And also some new! It's all very exciting! :)

Just wondering, would a car using a Toca engine but with just a Peugeot body shell for example, still be branded a Peugeot?

I know that's actually a silly question but it harks back to the only slight part I don't quite get with these new regs and that is with so many standard parts, what would actually make one car different from another apart from the body shell?

[Chris05]

Just reading the regs again, it seems that there will be quite a few adjustment parameters on different aspects, and I'm no mechanic, but I'm sure there will be further minor adjustments the teams can make on various standardised parts. I was going to say aerodynamically the cars will be different due to the body shape, but it looks like testing will be carried out to ensure no one car is at an advantage. So in answer Rapid_fit_mondeo, nothing apart from the badge lol, no just kidding, we'll have to wait and see. I suppose the only way to be sure of a level playing field is to standardise the parts, and I'm all for that if it will be cheaper and encourage more teams to join.

On a side note, I reckon that if all of us forum members chip in, we could start our own team :D Shotgun the drivers seat :p

[cookingfat]

With regard to BMW, it's hardly a kick in the teeth, as Alan Gow says, the teams currently using them are not manufacturer based, and could, by the looks of the new regs, easily change to a different car, and would probably want to within 4 years anyway.

So a clear message to WSR and Motorbase... you can stay in the BTCC providing you dump the BMW's!!!

Not sure they are welcoming the news with open arms, even though they have until 2013 to change cars or Championships...

[Chris05]

So a clear message to WSR and Motorbase... you can stay in the BTCC providing you dump the BMW's!!!

Not sure they are welcoming the news with open arms, even though they have until 2013 to change cars or Championships...

It sounds like all teams have had a say in these new rules so I doubt they feel like that.

[Beemer Fan]

Damn sorry to see the BMWs go. But if it brings new cars and manufacturers into the series, it's worth it.

[cookingfat]

It sounds like all teams have had a say in these new rules so I doubt they feel like that. :confused: Not as easy as it sounds....

[nicemms91]

In some ways I can see that these rules are good because for the independant teams its bringimg down the cost of building their own Car such as Team Dynamics or Team Aon. However these rules may not encourage manufacturers back, as if they wish to race in BTCC or WTCC or what ever series they will need a different car for the BTCC.

I'm sure Alan knows what hes doing though and I guess we'll hace to see what happens.

[cookingfat]

In some ways I can see that these rules are good because for the independant teams its bringimg down the cost of building their own Car such as Team Dynamics or Team Aon.
And what makes you think in this current climate these teams have the money to build and develop new cars?

Team Aon have a wealthy backer, Team Dymanics, Motorbase and WSR don't, so who will pay for their cars?

[nicemms91]

And what makes you think in this current climate these teams have the money to build and develop new cars?

Team Aon have a wealthy backer, Team Dymanics, Motorbase and WSR don't, so who will pay for their cars?

Well by 2011 the current recession may have passed and hopefully they will have more money from sponsporship or whatever.

Or if not they have up till 2013 to stop using S2000 cars.

[Chippy1001]

TURBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSS!!!!!:D :D :D :D :D

No BMW's :( :( :(

[Rockinrobin55]

Sounds okay but i'm going too miss the BMW's, it is a bit of a let down that they down include BMW's (rwd) in the regulations!

[kezbabybabe]

I don't see a problem with no BMWs on the grid. it'll stop the rwd power pulling away from the lights...

Nice level playing field it would seem. :)

[Shortride]

Very positive news like discussed earlier the future of the btcc is looking bright and appealing to manufactures! :D

[declanskytek]

Does anyone else think that turbo charging the cars will make them sound as dull as anything? I think they will sound like the seat supercopa cars - no more lovely screaming engine notes from now on then:(

[HowardJacks]

Does anyone else think that turbo charging the cars will make them sound as dull as anything? I think they will sound like the seat supercopa cars - no more lovely screaming engine notes from now on then:(
Yes - unfortunately turbos do work as a silencer so the cars may be quieter. But I think they will still snarly plenty and we will get some wastegate noise and other sounds to go with it. I wonder if they can fit anti lag as in the WRC, some engine noise, whistle whistle then bang bang which is a fantastic thing to listen to! Look at the old Cosworth BTCC clips on youtube, I think they sound good!

[Soup AE86]

Hmmm interesting new regs, far more sensible than the FIAs turbo based formula, bring on 2011, even though it'll be a shame to lose the Beemers.

[CharlieJ]

Well.......................

I'll miss the Beemers :(

but.........................

Has Mr Gow made any mistakes in the way he runs the BTCC ? No! :D

I was disappointed when the MGs went, but pleased to see the BMWs, so when the BMWs go I'm sure I'll find a new favourite (almost certainly whatever WSR are running :p )

[turk06]

sorry guys if i have missed something in my brief skipping through the regs but why are we gonna have no bmws anymore?

[jonboy1066]

The regs are aimed at Large FWD Family Saloons and BMW don't make FWD cars.


Furthermore, the NGTC regulations will be based around larger ‘family-sized’ front-wheel-drive cars.

[turk06]

sorry guys just been having a more in depth read, now i see why there will be no bmws.

[cookingfat]

sorry guys just been having a more in depth read, now i see why there will be no bmws.
Plus no Honda Civics and no Seat Leons.

[stupot1981]

Plus no Honda Civics and no Seat Leons.
Bring in the Accored and the Exeo then :D ;)

[stupot1981]

Im well pleased with the new regs. sounds really posative.
The only downside being the No rear wheel drive.
I cannot see why they have to be just FWD?
surley they could have the regs to include RWD aswell?

Mind you Audi had to bin the Quattro in 1997 didn't they, maybe BMW could swap the drive train round to FWD lol :D

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

Must admit I like the quirk of some cars having better aero, others better brakes etc.

I wonder what the biggest difference maker will be now. Setup and the driver I would assume.

Bet the cars will look great though. I'm also not too worried about the turbo noise. Mightn't be as loud (having hear the Aon Focus for the first time last weekend) but if it's anything like WRC it'll be great:D

[aylesburyape]

Dont care too much about anything technical, all that matters to me is the bit about bigger propper touring cars. The Civics and Leons etc. over recent years have been a big turn off for me. So all in all I cant wait.

[Eunos]

Woo Hoo, the return of the Super Touring Era :D

If this means the return off the likes off Laguna's, Mondeo's etc than Bring it on :cool:

[KostaCR]

when i saw the 2.0 Turbocharged part i was just about to start ripping my car to pieces, but then saw FWD only :( :rolleyes:

[bruceiow]

i want to see the days of pumped up rep cars banging doors in close racing round britains finest circuits again.

I think this could be what the series needs and Alan should be commended for his usual fresh approach to keeping the series alive.

[nealfan]

Personally I don't like the idea. But I was exactly the same at the end of the super tourers because I loved 'em. We'll have to wait and see

[Touringtourer]

As are most, I'm a little unsure as to what effect on racing these new regs will have. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

As for BMW's, I think it'll be good to make things a bit more even by getting rid of the BMW start advantage, their better tyre wear and their vulnerability to a punt in the back spinning them out.

On the other side of the coin however, with standard brakes, suspension and equalised aero I wonder if this'll reduce overtaking in the sport.
With everybody braking at the same point, riding the kerbs in the same way and having identical aero performance at the fastest and slowest tracks I can see it being much harder to overtake. Even if they do end up having a "push to pass" button the man in front will use it as a "push to defend".
I quite enjoyed some of the swings of last season, between good tracks for the Vectra vs good tracks for the Seat. If the cars are all the same at all the tracks it could mean a lot more predictable results.

I know the argument about how it should be about the drivers rather than the cars but if equal spec machinery was all we wanted how come Formula Renault, the Clio Cup or the Porsche's aren't top of the bill? Perhaps we've got enough standardised race series already.

As I said, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what TurboTouring brings!

[mike_bax]

Plus no Honda Civics and no Seat Leons.
But the Leons will be OK till 2013, and by then, "if" SEAT continue in WTCC, I'm sure that and EXEO car will have been developed, so there may be used chassis available.
As for the Civics, well, the Accord could return, the models may disappear, but the marques will remain

[Mondeo2]

On the other side of the coin however, with standard brakes, suspension and equalised aero I wonder if this'll reduce overtaking in the sport.
With everybody braking at the same point, riding the kerbs in the same way and having identical aero performance at the fastest and slowest tracks I can see it being much harder to overtake. Even if they do end up having a "push to pass" button the man in front will use it as a "push to defend".
I quite enjoyed some of the swings of last season, between good tracks for the Vectra vs good tracks for the Seat. If the cars are all the same at all the tracks it could mean a lot more predictable results.

Drivers like their cars set up in different ways, you won't get perfectly identical aero performance from differently shaped cars so there will be slight advantages here and there and with driver ability it will bring overtaking and racing. Basing everything on being identical then in race 3 at Oulton, Jonathan Adam would have stormed to the front and won by a great lead considering the way Collard fought his way through the field from last to 4th.

[mattlovestbs]

I cant wait for 2011 and these new regs!

and it'll be interesting to see how Alan will keep the Turbo petrol cars and the normal petrol cars equal, as well as keeping them both equal vs the BeeEmms til 2013.

very exciting times ahead :D

[Sparkz]

Ive sent Alan a question asking if there's a chance we could see an artists design of how one of the cars may look. Similiar to the Lada Priora in the WTCC (which I seen on another well know Touring Car News site some time ago)

[bigred]

surely the cars are gonna look like what ever the manufactures are making at the time the regs come in, then toca will shove them in a tunnel and add splitters, wings and other appendages to equalise the aero performance. just hope none of the manufacturers produce a car that has the aero dynamics of a brick imagine one of them chyrsler 300C wagons lol

[wig234]

hi guy, could someone please explain the toca-engine bit to me, is it an engine made by toca (sort of like a dealer engine as in F1) or have i got it wrong?? :confused:

kerry

[mike_bax]

hi guy, could someone please explain the toca-engine bit to me, is it an engine made by toca (sort of like a dealer engine as in F1) or have i got it wrong?? :confused:

kerry

Simple, if a team doesn't want to/can't afford to build a 2.0L engine that complies to the regs, TOCA have suggested they will build a "customer" engine, which is equal in performance to manufacturer engines.
Remember, all engines, whether made by the team, or supplied by TOCA, will have the same ECU and Turbo, and will all be restricted to a maximum power, hence making the cars fairly equal.

[SpeedRacer]

Sorry if its been mentioned but. This is a little list of car I can see that wont be eligble under the NGTC rules:

Honda Civic - What will Team Dynamics go to? The Accord maybe if they stay with Honda.
Ford Focus - Will Team Aon stay and if so what will they change to?
Volvo C30 - Will they join and if so what car as the C30 is to small?

As I mention in the C30 all the above cars are too small and therefore cant be used.

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

Sorry if its been mentioned but. This is a little list of car I can see that wont be eligble under the NGTC rules:

Honda Civic - What will Team Dynamics go to? The Accord maybe if they stay with Honda.
Ford Focus - Will Team Aon stay and if so what will they change to?
Volvo C30 - Will they join and if so what car as the C30 is to small?

As I mention in the C30 all the above cars are too small and therefore cant be used.

Did it not say in the news on this that all the teams voted for the changes unanaimously?

The Focus can have 3 full seasons before they even think about changing it, possibly longer.

[SpeedRacer]

Did it not say in the news on this that all the teams voted for the changes unanaimously?

The Focus can have 3 full seasons before they even think about changing it, possibly longer.
I know it says they voted unanaimously but you have to think that both Dynamics and AON have there minds on the title. So I think they may well build the cars for a test season in 2010. Therefore what car would they choose? And will Volvo enter seen as the most likely car wont be allowed in the NGTC rules. Would help if we knew when the S2000 cars would be outlawed so to speak.

[simon1220]

This is brilliant news and I hope this works and turns out to be a great change for the series and for the future. Im a bit gutted about losing the BMW's mainly, the FWD v RWD aspect adds some great excitement to the series and if we lose the Beemers, hopefully we can get lots of new manufacturers in to cover them.

Only worry is if all the cars are FWD, lots of identical parts to the cars, some with identical 'customer' engines, where will teams find advantages to allow them to be the best. Surely races will end up being a procession, as the cars are all equal pretty much, so wont get any advantage to overtake.

I am excited overall about this, just a few doubts, but with Alan Gow in charge, Im sure hes been planning this for a while and knows what hes doing and will make these changes improve racing and the BTCC spectale.

[simon1220]

I know it says they voted unanaimously but you have to think that both Dynamics and AON have there minds on the title. So I think they may well build the cars for a test season in 2010. Therefore what car would they choose? And will Volvo enter seen as the most likely car wont be allowed in the NGTC rules. Would help if we knew when the S2000 cars would be outlawed so to speak.

In 2013, the NGTC cars will recieve engine power boosts or something, to basically make them faster than the S2000 cars. This will practically drive the S2000 cars out in that season, as teams wont want to continue with a disadvantage to rivals.

[SpeedRacer]

In 2013, the NGTC cars will recieve engine power boosts or something, to basically make them faster than the S2000 cars. This will practically drive the S2000 cars out in that season, as teams wont want to continue with a disadvantage to rivals.
BUt what will they give them in terms of breaks. Just look at the BTC spec cars getting breaks this year.

[Sparkz]

I like the sounds of this engine boost after 2013.
Doe's that mean the BHP limit will be strectched passed 300 then? :confused:

[craig adams]

I imagine the power of the turbo cars will be limited to start with to be the same as the current s2000 NA cars.

Then in 2013 the turbo boost pressure level will be increased to give around 300bhp or so.

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

I imagine the power of the turbo cars will be limited to start with to be the same as the current s2000 NA cars.

Then in 2013 the turbo boost pressure level will be increased to give around 300bhp or so.

The current cars are already 300bhp though

[simon1220]

Drivers like their cars set up in different ways, you won't get perfectly identical aero performance from differently shaped cars so there will be slight advantages here and there and with driver ability it will bring overtaking and racing. Basing everything on being identical then in race 3 at Oulton, Jonathan Adam would have stormed to the front and won by a great lead considering the way Collard fought his way through the field from last to 4th.

Well the current regulations means all the cars arent identical :rolleyes: So that didnt happen and wont this season. Under the new regulations ..... it might

[Sparkz]

If regulations mean all the car's are identical, then why do the RWD cars get better starts than the FWD cars (and I know its because most of the weight is over the rear wheels giving them better traction off the line) That doesnt tell me the regulations or equal amongst all cars.

Im no major fan of Plato or Jackson, but I do share a bit of grievance for them, all the effort to line up first and second, only to have another car storm past them off the line due to its starting abilities.

[CroftPilgrim]

All this talk of current cars becoming inelgible, forcing the teams to buy new cars etc. I think we are missing the point. Even if the regs weren't changing the current teams would be VERY UNLIKELY to be running the same cars in 2013 as they are now. So they will need to buy/build new cars anyway. I really dont think Team Dynamics, WSR, Motrobase are that bothered that their current cars will be "ineligible" by 2013. And to try and guess what they might run is a waste of time - there will be a whole host of new models available by then!

[Mondeo2]

Well the current regulations means all the cars arent identical :rolleyes: So that didnt happen and wont this season. Under the new regulations ..... it might
My point was that both Motorbase cars are identical, but due to driving style the drivers will have their cars set up differently, factor in driving ability for what ever reason and the two cars will perform differently. So if all the cars are of near identical aero downforce, identical power, and common hardware other than engines, we will still see racing and overtaking, which someone feared in an earlier post we would lose.

[Mondeo2]

The current cars are already 300bhp though
The super tourers were 300bhp or greater, current cars are around 270-285.

[Mondeo2]

All this talk of current cars becoming inelgible, forcing the teams to buy new cars etc. I think we are missing the point. Even if the regs weren't changing the current teams would be VERY UNLIKELY to be running the same cars in 2013 as they are now. So they will need to buy/build new cars anyway. I really dont think Team Dynamics, WSR, Motrobase are that bothered that their current cars will be "ineligible" by 2013. And to try and guess what they might run is a waste of time - there will be a whole host of new models available by then!
I agree, what is more cars built for the 2011 season will likely be sold on in 2013 to independants, they won't be out of date and struggling to keep up with new cars. Also they will be cheaper to buy than current second hand cars as they will have been cheaper to build in the first place. Everyone wins.

[macaluca]

All sounds good to me.
Those teams running 'illegible' cars will all have plenty of time to develop alternatives, and as has just been said, this is something they would have been doing anyway, even without a rule change.

[fordman93]

do they have to use turbos (not a big fan of that part):mad: but the rest sounds cool:)

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

What if we look at this from the 'reverse' position? Instead of asking what manufacturer parts would be in the new cars, could someone tell me what parts are standard over the entire S200 grid?

[Sparkz]

After reading Alan's question about Mondello (whats this, another Mondello question :rolleyes: )

I was thinking that the "NGTC" is looking at lowering costs for drivers/teams. Does that mean if costs are lowered by a substantial amount, the BTCC could return to Mondello Park some day in the future?

[Sparkz]

The super tourers were 300bhp or greater, current cars are around 270-285.

The cars today do run around 270-285.
But the cut-off limit for the BHP is 300. :)

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

After reading Alan's question about Mondello (whats this, another Mondello question :rolleyes: )

I was thinking that the "NGTC" is looking at lowering costs for drivers/teams. Does that mean if costs are lowered by a substantial amount, the BTCC could return to Mondello Park some day in the future?

I thought the problem with Mondello was the access and small crowds?

It was great for me. 100 mile drive is much cheaper than flights, hire car and hotel but the atmosphere was awful, the crowds got smaller each year and the organisation to get people out was terrible. I dread to think how they'd deal with a UK size crowd.

[Sparkz]

It hasnt been back due to the costs on teams, ferries and accomadation etc, etc.

[redshoes]

On the other side of the coin however, with standard brakes, suspension and equalised aero I wonder if this'll reduce overtaking in the sport.

I know the argument about how it should be about the drivers rather than the cars but if equal spec machinery was all we wanted how come Formula Renault, the Clio Cup or the Porsche's aren't top of the bill? Perhaps we've got enough standardised race series already.
A few standard parts does not make this a one-make series. Remember that the previous BTCT cars had common suspension components.

When Team Dynamics built the Integra, to save time and money they striped all the running gear from their existing Civics. The Integra was largely the same mechanics as the Civic but in a different shell, yet the two were far from equal in terms of performance.

[kezbabybabe]

Wow! It's a long time away guys, so a little bit too much assumption here...

2011 is when we will see the beginnings of the new regs and we'll see what impact this will have on the teams that will enter at that time.

Sparkz: I think both Chevvys, like I did, knew that the BMW of Turks was going to have them both at the first corner.

[simon1220]

After reading Alan's question about Mondello (whats this, another Mondello question :rolleyes: )

I was thinking that the "NGTC" is looking at lowering costs for drivers/teams. Does that mean if costs are lowered by a substantial amount, the BTCC could return to Mondello Park some day in the future?

While the BTCC are cutting costs and may be able to return, will still be too expensive for all the support races to go across and race.

[Sparkz]

Sparkz: I think both Chevvys, like I did, knew that the BMW of Turks was going to have them both at the first corner.

I said the exact same thing in the Oulton qualifying thread.
But (to me) its annoying that regardless where the RWD car qualifies, it can pick up 2, 3, sometimes even four places at once off the grid.

[stupot1981]

I said the exact same thing hin the Oulton qualifying thread.
But (to me) its annoying that regardless where the RWD car qualifies, it can pick up 2, 3, sometimes even four places at once off the grid.
Yeah but look what Happens when it Rains, they are all over the Shop, Its swings and roundabouts.

[Sparkz]

Yeah but look what Happens when it Rains, they are all over the Shop, Its swings and roundabouts.

Really?
Because Turkington and Jackson didnt do too shabby at Croft and Silverstone last year ;)

[stupot1981]

Really?
Because Turkington and Jackson didnt do too shabby at Croft and Silverstone last year ;)
Yeah but there still at a Disadvantage in the wet to FWD. I know what i would rather drive at 130mph on a wet race track and its not RWD. ;)

[bigred]

rwd fwd u pays ur money u take ur chance well u did in the past with the new regs its gonna be fwd only. its the only bit of the new regs that i think is flawed

[stupot1981]

Larger Wheels and Tyres, thats quite an Interesting bit.think I read 18inch Rims.
What size are they now about 15 Inch?

[bigred]

fewer revolutions per lap less tyre wear

[greggie_05]

Hi Everyone,

I know I dont post often, so hopfully I don't tread on anyone's toes.

Im not to sure why people are cheering as much as some of you are.
I've seen few posts which are along the lines. "Equal aero means reduced overtaking".

This is exactly right. In 2003, the Australian Touring Car Series (v8 supercars) went to a Aero parity formula and it was one of the worst things they have done. Since then we have seen much much less overtaking then pre 03.

This year they are throwing in soft compound tryes to "Spice" the racing up because it was becoming a follow the leader precession, which the fans wern't enjoying.

I can see why some like the idea of evening up all the cars aero, to make the racing really close, just a warning, don't make the cars so close that overtaking is seriously hampered.

Mind you I think anything that reducing costs is an excellant thing for any sport.

The Turbo's will add an interesting aspect to the sport though, should be different to say the least :confused:

[kezbabybabe]

Really?
Because Turkington and Jackson didnt do too shabby at Croft and Silverstone last year ;)
RWD love full wet races, but look at the first race of Brands Hatch last season: Mat J pulls out a great lead on Gio, but once the track got greasy the RWD of the BMW was difficult to control. :)

[bruce]

these rules are great!! bigger cars,more power,different types of cars.
so with the wheels,are they going to be centre lock wheels meaning the posibilty of bringing back feature races?i personally not to sure about turbos but as it is easier to get 300bhp from a 2ltr turbo than the n/a equivalent and that is going to make everything cheaper,good times:)
with the money that teams will save will we possibly see more lavish hospitality suite such as team aons? i truly believe the new rules will turn a new milestone in the btcc.

[stupot1981]

Motorsport News have Digested the New Regs well, I wonder what AUTOSPORT will have to say Tomorrow?

[Mondeo2]

Sorry if its been mentioned but. This is a little list of car I can see that wont be eligble under the NGTC rules:

Honda Civic - What will Team Dynamics go to? The Accord maybe if they stay with Honda.
Ford Focus - Will Team Aon stay and if so what will they change to?
Volvo C30 - Will they join and if so what car as the C30 is to small?

As I mention in the C30 all the above cars are too small and therefore cant be used.
A new Focus comes out in 2010 anyway, current car is only a couple of inches short of the new min. length. If the new model also falls short, then the Mondeo would suffice, but then the next Mondeo is due in 2012. I reckon we could see the return of Ford as a manufacturer entry by then anyway so if Ford haven't sold off Volvo by then their ia unlikely to be a works Volvo entry. If Volvo do enter I should imagine it will be the equivalent of the S60 or S80 what ever they have in production at the time.

rwd fwd u pays ur money u take ur chance well u did in the past with the new regs its gonna be fwd only. its the only bit of the new regs that i think is flawed
It's only flawed for any manufacturer that only has rwd cars and would have wanted to enter. When all the cars are fwd then there can be no arguments over the extra weight rwd cars have had to carry in the past or currently.

Larger Wheels and Tyres, thats quite an Interesting bit.think I read 18inch Rims.
What size are they now about 15 Inch?
The Focus runs on 17" rims so I assume the rest run on the same size

[CroftPilgrim]

do they have to use turbos (not a big fan of that part):mad: but the rest sounds cool:)

As I read it, yes they do. The rationale is that using a turbo puts less stress on the engine, meaning it should last longer, hopefully a full season!

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

The current rim size is 17" indeed.

Am I mistake though or did the Super Tourers run on 19" wheels?

[obsessivecompulsive2]

The current rim size is 17" indeed.

Am I mistake though or did the Super Tourers run on 19" wheels?
No you're not wrong,the "supertourers" did indeed run on 19" wheels,and i hope this is the size that TOCA are looking at using again,the cars looked really aggressive sitting on that size of rim and suited the type of cars used perfectly IMO,i guess it's a witing game to see exactly what is used. ;)

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

I agree, they looked incredible. No need for the 'boxy' flared arches etc of the S2000 cars, just lowered a huge amount with cut away wings:D

[obsessivecompulsive2]

I agree, they looked incredible. No need for the 'boxy' flared arches etc of the S2000 cars, just lowered a huge amount with cut away wings:D
Like a certain "Rapid Fit Mondeo" i was a huge fan of back in the late 90's/early 2000's;) ,and few other cars i could mention,they were still the best looking touring cars to grace BTCC i think,and i hope the new regs sees a return to this style of touring car!:D

[felix27]

to maybe throw a spanner in the works...... but knowhere does it stat that cars must keep the original drivetrain layout?

and frontwheel drive vs rwd in the wet?? a rwd car uses its tyres alot better and wet tyres are always supersoft plus frontwheel drive cans will understeer alot more in the wet compared to rwd that is just a bit more controlable oversteer!

[TUMBLEWEED16]

ok i really not sure on this

i loved the rs500 era and i love the the super touring era and now the s2000 era

and i think i felt the same every time they changed it and still brought us great racing and i still loved it

i guess time will tell

as long as i still have a honda to support i'll be happy

[Neotax]

i dont want this to happen .. if all cars are goin to look the same have same engines .. then this wont be fun to watch no more

i love the current set up

diffent cars .. no only looks good sounds wicked to and having them be better at different tracks/weather makes it more open

bmw is provin this rubbish in some weather & track .. and lets say vxr flyin at another

but at other tracks/weather conditions the roles are other way around ...

i love the current format .. and disaprove of the new regs coming in ..

i surpose i need to see them in action to be proved wrong ..

well lets just see
:)

[Marc W]

They won't possibly look the same as they will still use the shell's from whatever road car they are based on.


to maybe throw a spanner in the works...... but knowhere does it stat that cars must keep the original drivetrain layout?

and frontwheel drive vs rwd in the wet?? a rwd car uses its tyres alot better and wet tyres are always supersoft plus frontwheel drive cans will understeer alot more in the wet compared to rwd that is just a bit more controlable oversteer!

It does say front wheel drive only though!

[btccsmurf]

I think it would be a mistake to get rid of the RWD cars.. seeing them battle it out makes it alot more fun to watch. Oh well.. they said that things can still change so we'll have to see.

I think having a marquee name in there helps the series, and certainly there is a certain pride in having said that you trashed the BMWs versus.. you trashed the poor Honda Civic in the race.

[Freddie]

Mr Gow has said that what ever the drive train layout on the original car teams can change it to front wheel drive. Not sure about homoglation when you have a fwd BMW.

[Sparkz]

I think it would be a mistake to get rid of the RWD cars..

The BMW's werent written out of the regulations, they just weren't into them, but Alan has said that when the right time comes, he may write them back in.

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

Personally I think that reading between the lines, Alan Gow is waiting for a BMW factory entry before deciding if the regs should be adjusted

[kezbabybabe]

RFM: That's right, why adjust the regs for independent teams when they can use other vehicles to race in? As we know Alan Gow knows what he is talking about :cool:

[6184]

I think the new rules will be great, lowering costs to hopefully introduce more teams to join the BTCC can only be a good thing.

Lets hope more manufacturers decide to jump onboard with factory teams.

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

I'd personally love to see a breakdown of all the parts a team can bring that aren't standard.