very annoid

[MG-ZS EX260]

Ive just read in autosport, Alan gow has chosen to move the BTCC at donnignton this year from the international track to the short national track, im very disapointed, the melbourne loop is brilliant and does produce excellent racing. Alan said 'the nationla track produces better racing' im sorry but i beg to differ, the international track is great and you can get the closest to the cars on the loop, Please anyone else who wants the full track, please sign and support my argument!

[Alan]

Dear Very Annoyed,

You may recall that McKay started a thread just a couple of weeks ago asking for a bit more variety in use of circuit layouts. There was much debate but I think generally the concensus was that this was no bad thing.

So - Mr Gow changes to the national circuit at Donington and what happens? :( Talk about a no win situation! Mind you, if you prefer the longer circuit that is fine, and you will have your supporters, but for me, no, the change is needed I think.

Now I'm not saying for one minute that Mr Gow changed purely as a result of the posts on this forum - but he may just have read it and taken it into account. There have been some very very good races on the national circuit (remember '98?, and Matts first win!) so hopefully we will have more this year.

Mind you - this is also the "big" meeting isn't it, so maybe there are several reasons for this change.

[Ed- the MG fan]

I'm really upset by this. Last year the Melbourne Loop created great action.

Cutting it out isn't changing the track that much either. I think when people on the forum said they wamted variety on a track layout, they ment something really dofferent, like using the GP layout instead of the internatnal one at silverstone

[Craig Antill]

Didn't the ETCC use the long circuit? I know that the DTM is this weekend...

I'm sure it's not connected though. Ahem.

[MG-ZS EX260]

on the melborne loop there are loads og palces i can get good photos but on the short track there a not many, due to all the fencing, im really really not happy bout this, i really hate the short track, not a bad chicane but not as good as a chicane and two hairpins, hairpins are the best places on a track for overtaking, in doing what hes done Gow has made no hairpins and just one chicane, it just seems so illoical to me.

And yes the ETCC and DTM are using the full track.

[Craig Antill]

And yes the ETCC and DTM are using the full track.

And I wonder which series will have the fastest and slowest lap times?

[Peter]

Personally, I welcome the change.

Yes, the Grand Prix circuit provides an excellent show, as we saw last year. However, I am a big believer in diversity- I had been growing someone tired of the GP loop. The Goddards chicane offers a fabulous overtaking opportunity, as Alan pointed out earlier.

A move to the national circuit is fan-friendly, as spectators will see the cars more regularly, and there is a greater chance of the tv cameras catching the action live, as there are (obviously) fewer corners to cover.

[Les]

have to say I will miss sticking my camera through the fence and standing by the start of the loop but against that I will see the cars more often when standing at Redgate.

Why not one of each?

[Insider]

Hmmmm.....Mg-zs ex260 and Ed-the Mg fan are both against using the shorter circuit. Guess which team will benefit most from not using the hairpin as slow corners are their achiles heel?

[Paul Rayner]

Originally posted by Les
Why not one of each?
Because it's a bit more of a headache for the organisers than they need, and there'd be more logistics like where to put the marshals. I know the Seat Cupra Cup is doing one at each at Brands, but that's the first time that I know of that a series has raced on two layouts the same weekend.

As for using the national circuit - I'm with the people who voted for variation in track layouts. I like the national circuit because it means the cars come round more often (1:40 laps tend to be a bit too long in my opinion), and we were on the GP circuit last year, so why not the short one this year?

MG ZS, did you ever see that fantastic race at Donington with Mansell in 1998? The national circuit can produce great racing.

[touringlegend]

Originally posted by Craig Antill
Didn't the ETCC use the long circuit? I know that the DTM is this weekend...

I'm sure it's not connected though. Ahem.


Watch yourself Craig. Last time I suggested that I got accused of being a conspiracy theorist and talking out of my **** !!! ;)


Personally, I love the National circuit. I don't see much point in using an extra two straights and a hairpin.

[Toto]

Having been to Donington for, quite literally, hundreds of club/national/international meetings since it reopened in 1977, I have to say the national lay-out wins every time. That loop never looked right when it was added in 1985 and just looks out of place with the rest of the circuit. More often than not, I find the GP loop splits up the racing - it's almost like someone decided to add an artificial means of spicing up the racing when there was nothing wrong with it in the first place.

For me, Alan Gow, again, has got it spot on.

[MG-ZS EX260]

Originally posted by Insider
Hmmmm.....Mg-zs ex260 and Ed-the Mg fan are both against using the shorter circuit. Guess which team will benefit most from not using the hairpin as slow corners are their achiles heel?

I am NOT saying use the full track because of how eacj car will perform, i basically want to be able to get some decent photos and see some action, the melboure loop is brilliant and i always will be dead against using the short track.

[Claw]

I think the shorter track is better.

The melbourne loop seemed to spead the cars out.

The shorter track has supplyed some great races.

[Stuart]

I have to agree that the BTCC always runs better on the shorter circuit. A lot of drivers complain that the Melbourne loop is pretty dull - just a bit more track.

Paul Rayner hit the nail on the head - The 1998 "Mansell" race must have been the best ever under Super Tourer rules.

The championship finale should be the most exciting race of the year and as ever Mr Gow might just have created a masterpiece.

[MG-ZS EX260]

Originally posted by Stuart
The championship finale should be the most exciting race of the year and as ever Mr Gow might just have created a masterpiece.

well, what a shame the seaon finale isnt at donnington, its oulton park *engage brain!* lol :D

[Stuart]

D'oh! Still living in the past after watching the 2002 season review the other night... that and I'm far too excited about seeing the DTM cars at Donington this weekend!

Thing is, the season SHOULD end at Donington or Silverstone.... doesn't feel quite right ending anywhere else...

[Alan]

Oh Nooo! Don't even suggest finishing at Silverstone - we want to go out with a bang not a damp squishy wimper!

Donington would be ok as will Oulton Park - usually a good crowd there and a good atmosphere.

In fact - anywhere except Silverstone (or Mondello of course!):)

[Bill]

Hey! I think that silverstone is a great place to end the championship! Sure, it's not the best track for entertainment, but has more heritage than any of the others. The 2000 finale was really something special. Winning a championship at the home of british motorsport must really be something special.

Other than that, I feel that Oulton is a strange place for the finale. Brands, Donington and Silverstone have the right feeling for the final rounds, but oulton feels a little sparse. It's probably the best track in the country, and therefore I don't feel lends itself well to the position of being the final round.

[Alan]

"It's probably the best track in the country, and therefore I don't feel lends itself well to the position of being the final round".

Well if that isn't a contradiction I don't know what is!!:confused:

[Bill]

OK, that wasn't phrased too well. What I meant was that it is the ultimate driver skill circuit in the country, and therefore a better place to do battle in the midseason rather than decide a championship. It's just a personal preference, but it's just the fact that it's not considered one of the major circuits like the big three for which I feel it's not the place to end the champioship.

[tvgod]

Originally posted by Peter
and there is a greater chance of the tv cameras catching the action live, as there are (obviously) fewer corners to cover.

But presumably they will use fewer cameras.

[Cleland Fan]

I'm really looking forward to this track. I've never seen this used in my 3 trips to Donington so far, but that last chicane has been the scene of many a desperate late braking move on the last lap over the years. :D A wee bit of variety doesn't hurt. Who cares if it's not the ideal photo shot for some people? That doesn't come into the organiser's minds when they select the track i'm sure.

[stono jnr]

Originally posted by Cleland Fan
I'm really looking forward to this track. I've never seen this used in my 3 trips to Donington so far, but that last chicane has been the scene of many a desperate late braking move on the last lap over the years. :D A wee bit of variety doesn't hurt. Who cares if it's not the ideal photo shot for some people? That doesn't come into the organiser's minds when they select the track i'm sure.


providing decent racing should be though, I think its a mistake to move away from the International, and its for at least 2 years, Alan Gow has already said its for this year and next.

IMO the melbourne loop provides the classic hairpin overtaking move (like we were getting at Rockingham) as well as having the foggy esses and goddard to contend with which can always lead to position changes if the leading car makes a mistake), as they often do there (just ask Aiello :) ), and it can also make a big effect on the run into Redgate (another overtaking spot). and its a good spot to spectate from, not just for photographers, as your close to the action.

the national circuit with the chicane has always seemed a poor compromise to me doesnt really add another overtaking spot so much as take a few away, and that consequently has always seemed to force peoples hands into making more of the do or die last lap moves, because theyre more limited on places to overtake.

as for the 98 race, the reason that was so good was because you had variable conditions, I think it was a dry/wet race, but people gambled on tyre choice so you had big performance differences between those on slicks/inters and full wets and it changed over the course of the race, and that kind of thing always produces good racing, heck even the Brands hatch indy is exciting in those conditions :)

Im all for track variability, using different configurations of a race track, but you know look were visiting Brands twice this year and not once using the GP loop, so what is to be ??


stono

[100%VauxhallFan]

In all fairness, we haven't seen the current BTCC ruled car racing on this different Donny circuit, so can we at least give them a chance to race on there before we decide that it's going to be the worst thing the BTCC could have ever done... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Croft fan]

I was at the Donington finale last year, and thought it made a great place to have the finale! The atmospher was fantastic, and having the F3 and GT cars there as well was something special.
But I do love the Donington with its full track, I have been to the place when is has used the shorter track and must admit it was not so bad as the cars come around more, you usally get more laps due to the track being shorter, so more chance to see the cars, but I love the Melbourne Hairpin, and the Foggie esses, they are one of the best palce to watch the races.
Will still lookforward to it, as long as the craners and the old hairpin are not cut out, Ha Ha:p

[Alfa Fan]

With them using the National circuit for BTCC in the first time ages, why not switch the final races of the year to the Fosters circuit at Oulton Park, two 40 lap races would allow the spectators to see the cars 80 times, instead of the 60 or so time using the Island circuit. I really hope the Fosters circuit is used again as it is a cracking layout.

[Paul Rayner]

But the Foster's circuit has one less overtaking opportunity than the Island one. The Foster's one has... well, Foster's, but the Island one has the Knickerbrook chicane and Island, and they're too good to miss out, especially for the championship decider!

As for the difference in length, there's only about 0.6 miles in it, so you're talking about a difference in race distance of 5-10 laps, not 20.

[John]

what do people think about the trade off between circuit spectators and tv spectators - as a circuit spectator I'd want a short a track as possible so the cars came passed me more often, but as a tv spectator I want the track which will produce the best race.

the most clearcut example I could think of is Hockenheim, they totally redesigned it so that the spectators had a better show, but in terms of TV and driving (well from playing F1-2000 verses F1-2002 - not having driven the circuit myself!!) I think the changes have been detremental.

think some compromise has to be considered, but both parties will never be 100% satisfied

[McKay]

wow. my sort of contribution to motor racing. changing the layout used at a btcc meeting. i prefer short circuits. but i will go for the longer circuit if it is more flowing or better racing. i think having raced on the GP at donny, inter at silverstone, and island at oulton for the past 4 plus years is a little bit repetitive. im all for racing on the national circuit.