Monaco Grand Prix

[vulcan1]

It's not been long since we saw Mark Webber take the win in Spain but the next race is this weekend. The two practice sessions are on Thursday morning in Monaco. So who is going to win this weekend? I don't think qualifying will be as bad with traffic as the drivers are making it sound. They will have to just pick there time right and not get caught in traffic.

[lukeozade0405]

I think whatever happens in Qualifying, your going to have 23 out of the 24 drivers moaning about traffic :p

I think it'll be a red prancing horse winning this one, just a feeling.

[nealfan]

I think we are in for a surprise this weekend. I couldnt even bet on who comes pole let alone who wins

[kezbabybabe]

I like Monaco and look forward to watching it this weekend. Cheering on the McLaren boys are usual. :cool:

[team freebie]

I would like to see Hamilton win Monaco to make up for last weekends disaster.

Drivers I'd like to see win points
Hamilton, Massa, Button, Rosberg, Kubica, Sutil, Barrichello, Vettel, Alguersuari, Kovalainen (not in this order)

Who I'd like to see out of the points
Webber, (must be an Aussi thing) Schumacher (had his day time to let Rosberg have his)

Who I'd like to see walk back to the pits
A certain Spaniard who drives a red Fiat (cant bear to type his name)

[kezbabybabe]

I would like to see Hamilton win Monaco to make up for last weekends disaster.

Drivers I'd like to see win points
Hamilton, Massa, Button, Rosberg, Kubica, Sutil, Barrichello, Vettel, Alguersuari, Kovalainen (not in this order)

Who I'd like to see out of the points
Webber, (must be an Aussi thing) Schumacher (had his day time to let Rosberg have his)

Who I'd like to see walk back to the pits
A certain Spaniard who drives a red Fiat (cant bear to type his name)

Seems we are on the same wavelength. :) Though I don't mind Webber getting some points. :o

[VR6Steve]

I appreciate all the history of the Monaco GP, but personally I think its had its day. The cars have long since outgrown the track. It can be very processional.

Having said that, it will probably be a cracking race. :o

I predict that we will have more than 1 safetly car period during the weekend. :rolleyes:

[mattlovestbs]

I liked the fact that the top 6 GP2 runners lapped Monaco quicker than Bruno Senna - not a good mark for the Senna name nor F1 - but it is for GP2 :D

Shame GP3 isn't there - I can imagine 30 cars at St Devote...

[lukeozade0405]

Practice times:

First practice: 1 Fernando Alonso (Spn/Ferrari) 1min 15.927sec, 2 Sebastian Vettel (Ger/Red Bull-Renault) 1:16.000, 3 Robert Kubica (Pol/Renault) 1:16.016, 4 Mark Webber (Aus/Red Bull-Renault) 1:16.382, 5 Felipe Massa (Bra/Ferrari) 1:16.517, 6 Michael Schumacher (Ger/Mercedes) 1:16.589, 7 Lewis Hamilton (Gbr/McLaren-Mercedes) 1:16.647, 8 Jenson Button (Gbr/McLaren-Mercedes) 1:16.692, 9 Adrian Sutil (Ger/Force India-Mercedes) 1:16.805, 10 Sebastien Buemi (Swi/Toro Rosso-Ferrari) 1:16.857, 11 Nico Rosberg (Ger/Mercedes) 1:17.149, 12 Rubens Barrichello (Bra/Williams-Cosworth) 1:17.331, 13 Vitantonio Liuzzi (Ita/Force India-Mercedes) 1:17.704, 14 Vitaly Petrov (Rus/Renault) 1:17.718, 15 Jaime Alguersuari (Spn/Toro Rosso-Ferrari) 1:17.991, 16 Nico Huelkenberg (Ger/Williams-Cosworth) 1:18.397, 17. Pedro de la Rosa (Spn/Sauber-Ferrari) 1:18.434, 18 Kamui Kobayashi (Jpn/Sauber-Ferrari) 1:18.547, 19 Timo Glock (Ger/Virgin-Cosworth) 1:19.527, 20 Heikki Kovalainen (Fin/Lotus-Cosworth) 1:19.606, 21 Jarno Trulli (Ita/Lotus-Cosworth) 1:19.902, 22 Lucas Di Grassi (Bra/Virgin-Cosworth) 1:20.566, 23 Bruno Senna (Bra/Hispania-Cosworth) 1:21.688, 24 Karun Chandhok (Ind/Hispania-Cosworth) 1:21.853

2nd Practice:

1 Fernando Alonso (Spn) Ferrari 1:14.904, 2 Nico Rosberg (Ger) Mercedes GP 1:15.013, 3 Sebastian Vettel (Ger) Red Bull 1:15.099, 4 Felipe Massa (Bra) Ferrari 1:15.120, 5 Michael Schumacher (Ger) Mercedes GP 1:15.143, 6 Robert Kubica (Pol) Renault 1:15.192, 7 Lewis Hamilton (Gbr) McLaren 1:15.249, 8 Adrian Sutil (Ger) Force India 1:15.460, 9 Jenson Button (Gbr) McLaren 1:15.619, 10 Mark Webber (Aus) Red Bull 1:15.620, 11 Vitaly Petrov (Rus) Renault 1:15.746, 12 Sebastien Buemi (Swi) Toro Rosso 1:16.276, 13 Nico Hulkenberg (Ger) Williams F1 1:16.348, 14 Rubens Barrichello (Bra) Williams F1 1:16.522, 15 Vitantonio Liuzzi (Ita) Force India 1:16.528, 16 Pedro de la Rosa (Spn) Sauber 1:16.599, 17 Kamui Kobayashi (Jpn) Sauber 1:16.818, 18 Jaime Alguersuari (Spn) Toro Rosso 1:17.023, 19 Heikki Kovalainen (Fin) Lotus 1:18.184, 20 Lucas Di Grassi (Bra) Virgin Racing 1:18.478, 21 Jarno Trulli (Ita) Lotus 1:18.667, 22 Timo Glock (Ger) Virgin Racing 1:18.721, 23 Karun Chandhok (Ind) Hispania 1:20.313, 24 Bruno Senna (Bra) Hispania 1:22.148

[Stitch]

Practice times:

First practice: 1 Fernando Alonso (Spn/Ferrari) 1min 15.927sec, 2 Sebastian Vettel (Ger/Red Bull-Renault) 1:16.000, 3 Robert Kubica (Pol/Renault) 1:16.016, 4 Mark Webber (Aus/Red Bull-Renault) 1:16.382, 5 Felipe Massa (Bra/Ferrari) 1:16.517, 6 Michael Schumacher (Ger/Mercedes) 1:16.589, 7 Lewis Hamilton (Gbr/McLaren-Mercedes) 1:16.647, 8 Jenson Button (Gbr/McLaren-Mercedes) 1:16.692, 9 Adrian Sutil (Ger/Force India-Mercedes) 1:16.805, 10 Sebastien Buemi (Swi/Toro Rosso-Ferrari) 1:16.857, 11 Nico Rosberg (Ger/Mercedes) 1:17.149, 12 Rubens Barrichello (Bra/Williams-Cosworth) 1:17.331, 13 Vitantonio Liuzzi (Ita/Force India-Mercedes) 1:17.704, 14 Vitaly Petrov (Rus/Renault) 1:17.718, 15 Jaime Alguersuari (Spn/Toro Rosso-Ferrari) 1:17.991, 16 Nico Huelkenberg (Ger/Williams-Cosworth) 1:18.397, 17. Pedro de la Rosa (Spn/Sauber-Ferrari) 1:18.434, 18 Kamui Kobayashi (Jpn/Sauber-Ferrari) 1:18.547, 19 Timo Glock (Ger/Virgin-Cosworth) 1:19.527, 20 Heikki Kovalainen (Fin/Lotus-Cosworth) 1:19.606, 21 Jarno Trulli (Ita/Lotus-Cosworth) 1:19.902, 22 Lucas Di Grassi (Bra/Virgin-Cosworth) 1:20.566, 23 Bruno Senna (Bra/Hispania-Cosworth) 1:21.688, 24 Karun Chandhok (Ind/Hispania-Cosworth) 1:21.853

2nd Practice:

1 Fernando Alonso (Spn) Ferrari 1:14.904, 2 Nico Rosberg (Ger) Mercedes GP 1:15.013, 3 Sebastian Vettel (Ger) Red Bull 1:15.099, 4 Felipe Massa (Bra) Ferrari 1:15.120, 5 Michael Schumacher (Ger) Mercedes GP 1:15.143, 6 Robert Kubica (Pol) Renault 1:15.192, 7 Lewis Hamilton (Gbr) McLaren 1:15.249, 8 Adrian Sutil (Ger) Force India 1:15.460, 9 Jenson Button (Gbr) McLaren 1:15.619, 10 Mark Webber (Aus) Red Bull 1:15.620, 11 Vitaly Petrov (Rus) Renault 1:15.746, 12 Sebastien Buemi (Swi) Toro Rosso 1:16.276, 13 Nico Hulkenberg (Ger) Williams F1 1:16.348, 14 Rubens Barrichello (Bra) Williams F1 1:16.522, 15 Vitantonio Liuzzi (Ita) Force India 1:16.528, 16 Pedro de la Rosa (Spn) Sauber 1:16.599, 17 Kamui Kobayashi (Jpn) Sauber 1:16.818, 18 Jaime Alguersuari (Spn) Toro Rosso 1:17.023, 19 Heikki Kovalainen (Fin) Lotus 1:18.184, 20 Lucas Di Grassi (Bra) Virgin Racing 1:18.478, 21 Jarno Trulli (Ita) Lotus 1:18.667, 22 Timo Glock (Ger) Virgin Racing 1:18.721, 23 Karun Chandhok (Ind) Hispania 1:20.313, 24 Bruno Senna (Bra) Hispania 1:22.148

Good practice. Alonso wasn't involved in any accidents, and didn't even crash, worse luck.

Nice to see Kubica right up there again.

[Sparkz]

Good practice. Alonso wasn't involved in any accidents, and didn't even crash.

Until now. :(

[simon1220]

Shame about Alonso .... not :p

Going to be a hectic qualifying session.

[simon1220]

Bit disapointing session to be honest, not much of the antics they said there would be.

But massive results for Webber and Red Bull again :D Love it!! Great result by Kubica, as much of a Red Bull fan as I am, would love to have seen Kubica at the front. Good to see Button and Schumacher towards the bottom of the top ten :)

[Stitch]

Bit disapointing session to be honest, not much of the antics they said there would be.

But massive results for Webber and Red Bull again :D Love it!! Great result by Kubica, as much of a Red Bull fan as I am, would love to have seen Kubica at the front. Good to see Button and Schumacher towards the bottom of the top ten :)

You forgot the bit where Alonso made a stupid mistake and starts from last! That was the highlight of my week.

[Relaxin Mood]

I think they should do away with BLUE FLAGS, if you are a better driver and in a slighty quicker car then you should be able to use your extra skill you have over the less exp. drivers and the extra power and better made car to overtake the car in front.

Will make a better racing and closer racing as you will see the better drivers getting through the trafic and the poorly skilled drivers getting held up and overtaken by the slower car but better driver.

[stupot1981]

Poo. :):):), have to agree with the 'Cars have out grew the circuit' comment, every race from the weekend the pole sitter won, GP2, FR 3.5 and Porkers.

[stupot1981]

I liked the fact that the top 6 GP2 runners lapped Monaco quicker than Bruno Senna - not a good mark for the Senna name nor F1 - but it is for GP2 :D



The HRT test driver Christian Klien has said that the Car is not even of F1 standard, no wonder its so slow, don't think that its down Senna or Chanduck being bad drivers.

[RaptorUK]

What a crock . . .



FORMULA 1:Michael Schumacher given 20-second penalty for overtaking when not allowed in Monaco GP

and no I'm not a Schumacher fan.


Regulations say . . .


Article 40.13 of the Formula 1 sporting regulation states: "If the race ends while the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

I interpret this as follows . . . if the Safety car is on track at the end of the last lap (i.e. finishing line) then the cars will follow it round for the rest of the lap, the Safety car will then pit and the cars will NOT overtake and will take the chequered flag. This means that the cars take the chequered flag one lap after the official end of the race.

Today the Safety car was not on track at the end of the race. Simple decision, wrong one made.

[Eunos]

Gonna be Completely Bias here ;)

If this had been Button or Hamilton i would be Fuming,

But as this is Michael Schumacher http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo&feature=related

[RaptorUK]

Gonna be Completely Bias here ;)

If this had been Button or Hamilton i would be Fuming,

But as this is Michael Schumacher http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo&feature=related

So you want different rules for each driver ? don't talk garbage.

[Eunos]

Oh Lighten up i wasnt being Serious



Or was i? ;)

[RaptorUK]

Oh Lighten up i wasnt being Serious

Or was i? ;)

No, you weren't . . . I know that, but some people would agree with what you have said . . and would be serious about it.

The more I look at that rule the more I see issues with it, how can the SC "enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap" when the Pit Lane starts before the end of the lap ?

Can and Worms spring to mind . . . I hope Mercedes challenge this ruling.

EDIT: from Formula1.com website


Mercedes will appeal the stewards' decision and a date for that appeal will be set in due course by the FIA. Schumacher’s demotion moves Toro Rosso’s Sebastien Buemi, who had finished in 11th, into the points in tenth place.

[Eunos]

Admitingly i missed the Race as i was Wotrking, I assume there were no Yellow's or Anything..

They can appeal but in all honestly i doubt anything will Change, Didnt do Lewis any good back in Belgium in 2008 ¬.¬

I can imagine every German Swear Word being used in the Mercedes Garages :p

20 Seconds is pretty harsh i have to Admit, I've seen Less been given for Worse ¬.¬

[stupot1981]

Admitingly i missed the Race as i was Wotrking, I assume there were no Yellow's or Anything..

They can appeal but in all honestly i doubt anything will Change, Didnt do Lewis any good back in Belgium in 2008 ¬.¬

I can imagine every German Swear Word being used in the Mercedes Garages :p

20 Seconds is pretty harsh i have to Admit, I've seen Less been given for Worse ¬.¬

Mind you, young Damon was on the Stewards panel, so he probley fancied a bit of revenge for 94 :p

[lukeozade0405]

All I can say is BORING BORING BORING BORING, my god I fell asleep again during this race.

On the Schumy incident I can't believe they deducted him 20seconds :o at very worst I would have given Alonso the place back but thats it. I could see nothing wrong with what happend! Alonso made an ass of himself and Schuy took advantage. From what I could see on the tele, the safety car had gone in and racing had started again past the white line...

[simon1220]

Rubbish race again. Only excitement was when drivers crashed themselves, the Trulli/Chandok incident was tasty. Had a giggle at Button as well :D As for Schumacher incident, stupid decision and shows even with driver input the decisions are ridiculous. If he did it wrong, give Alonso the place back and move on.

[lukeozade0405]

Rubbish race again. Only excitement was when drivers crashed themselves, the Trulli/Chandok incident was tasty. Had a giggle at Button as well :D As for Schumacher incident, stupid decision and shows even with driver input the decisions are ridiculous. If he did it wrong, give Alonso the place back and move on.

It seems we share the same sentiments exactly. :cool:

[Eunos]

Mind you, young Damon was on the Stewards panel, so he probley fancied a bit of revenge for 94 :p

Funnily enough the same thought poped into my Mind too :p

Should have stayed retired Shoe Maker :cool:

[lukeozade0405]

Funnily enough the same thought poped into my Mind too :p

Should have stayed retired Shoe Maker :cool:

I was thinking that it's in Damon's hand if this goes to a steward decision. Also I think he'd be more professional about it surely.... wouldn't he?? :o

[stupot1981]

. Also I think he'd be more professional about it surely.... wouldn't he?? :o

Yes, just like how Schumi was professional in winning the Title in 94 :D

[nealfan]

Was a boring race. I knew it was so i stayed out and justed watched highlights on red button. Whover left that cover on button's car should be sacked, but in there defence whats the point of having something like that the same colour of the car, why not have it an illuminous colour which stands out.

Schumacher and alonso incident is too hard to call. The rules do state that when the safety car has left the track, racing is resumed when the driver has crossed the safety car line, which is where schumi took advantage of a slightly out of shape alonso to take the position away from him. There should be no penalty. However The stewards, though, assisted by Schumacher's former arch rival Damon Hill, saw things differently, citing Article 40.13, which states that "if the race ends whilst the Safety Car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

All a bit suspicious? Damon hill's revenge? If not, why such a ridiculous penalty? When all the cars are bunched up anyway

[RaptorUK]

However The stewards, though, assisted by Schumacher's former arch rival Damon Hill, saw things differently, citing Article 40.13, which states that "if the race ends whilst the Safety Car is deployed

The SC was not deployed when the race ended, the SC pulled into the pits and the race resumed.

How does the SC " enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap" ? the pit lane is before the start/finish . . . the SC entered the Pit lane BEFORE the end of the last lap.

[nealfan]

The SC was not deployed when the race ended, the SC pulled into the pits and the race resumed.

How does the SC " enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap" ? the pit lane is before the start/finish . . . the SC entered the Pit lane BEFORE the end of the last lap. Exactly. I dont think he should be penalysed. Even david coulthard said he didnt see anything wrong. Mercedes are appealing. Everything pointing at damon hill revenge

[stupot1981]

damon hill revenge

Sounds like something you have after sunday dinner :D

[RaptorUK]

Exactly. I dont think he should be penalysed. Even david coulthard said he didnt see anything wrong. Mercedes are appealing. Everything pointing at damon hill revenge

I really don't think so, I expect that there was a discussion about what the rule actually means, as it doesn't make sense if you read it. Then the FiA will have gotten involved and explained the intent of the rule, i.e. what it was supposed to mean . . . then a discussion about whether it could be interpreted that way . . . probably a lot of swearing about how badly the rule was written then finally a bad decision was made.

Who do you give the benefit of the doubt in this situation ? IMO you give it to the person racing, not the one who feel asleep . . . the lights and flags were green . . .

[team freebie]

The Schumacher overtake was never going to be allowed on this occasion because it was a Ferrari that lost out and worse it was the gurning Spaniard.

You can bet if that had been a Ferrari who had overtaken a Mercedes then there would have been no more said about it.

If Hamilton had done what Schumacher did we would probably have seen a disqualification and a massive fine for McLaren.

F1. Unfair, Biased and always favouring Ferrari.

Sorry but the Bernie show is a complete FARCE

[kezbabybabe]

Aww :( I was hoping we might get away with that kind of statement for one year...

This is why they've bought in ex-F1 drivers to help give the drivers point of view over an incident.

Yes the rule is ambiguous to read and Ross Brawn (who we know is a techie guy) strongly felt he and the team was right, so let's wait and see what the appeal says.


I'm no Alonso fan, but what a drive! even the 'younger' teams didn't give it all his own way and it showed that the Virgin and Lotus cars needs more grip/downforce or something as they were being driven beyond their current limit. :)

[RaptorUK]

I don't know why I bother visiting this Forum, I guess it's in a vain attempt to have a discussion . . .

(not aimed at you kezbabybabe or any other member here)

but how are we supposed to discuss anything when threads get censored (Closed) for no good reason . . . I just can't see any logic to it :confused: the way to deal with issues is to deal with them, not bury your head in the sand and try to make them go away by closing the thread . . . .

I'm sorry to bring this up here, it's off topic, but I can't bring it up in the thread that it is relevant to as it's been closed !

The Mods need to understand that this is a Forum for discussion . . . how do Closed threads facilitate that ? It's about time that this was discussed . . . but how can we when we have trigger happy Mods ? It's a crazy situation. I hope Mr Gow is aware. :(

[VR6Steve]

Firstly, well done Mark Webber. I for one would be very happy to see him crowned this years Champ. :cool:

Secondly, to my mind what was Trulli thinking!!! :mad: Both he and Chandhok were in for a decent finish where so many others on the day were failing to do so.

The Alonso / Schumacher "incident". From the info I have heard so far, I think the penalty is wrong. I will look forward to hearing the outcome of the appeal.

[mark barker]

Mercedes have decided not to appeal, and the FIA have agreed to look at the rules and amend where required... It really doesn't do any sport any good to have such stupid rules. I really don't understand why they've felt the need to move the safety car line from the start/finish line....

[simon1220]

Full report for those who havent seen it:


Mercedes have decided not to appeal against the 20-second penalty which dropped Michael Schumacher from sixth to 12th place at the Monaco Grand Prix.

Schumacher was penalised for overtaking Fernando Alonso under a safety car at the end of the final lap.

"Whilst we cannot be happy with the outcome, we are pleased the FIA recognised the reasons for our interpretation," said Mercedes.

"In the best interests of the sport, Mercedes will not submit an appeal."

Following his team's advice that he was free to overtake, Schumacher, a seven-time world champion, passed Ferrari's Alonso on his way out of Rascasse and into Anthony Noghes at the end of Sunday's race.

But race stewards ruled the move breached the rules as the race should have been completed under safety car conditions.

Article 40.13 of the Formula 1 sporting regulations states: "If the race ends while the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

The penalty cost Schumacher eight much-needed championship points and Mercedes initially indicated that they would contest the decision of the FIA, the sport's governing body.

The German lies ninth in the drivers' standings, 34 points behind team-mate Nico Rosberg in eighth and 56 behind the Red Bull pair of leaders Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel.

"We believed that the combination of the race control messages and the green flags and lights shown by the marshals after safety car line one indicated that the race was not finishing under the safety car and all drivers were free to race," explained Mercedes.

"This opinion appears to have been shared by the majority of the teams with cars in the top 10 positions who also gave their drivers instructions to race to the finish line."

Alonso and his Ferrari team-mate Felipe Massa insist that they had been told to stay in position at the time of the incident.

The four race stewards who made the decision included Schumacher's old rival Damon Hill, with whom the German famously clashed on his way to his first world title in 1994.

"Mercedes would like to emphasise that we fully support the inclusion of past drivers on the stewards panel and are completely satisfied that the Monaco Grand Prix stewards acted professionally, impartially and properly in this matter," added the team's statement.

[VR6Steve]

I read elsewhere that Damon Hill was not too impressed at being asked to get involved with having to interpret the rules. He thought the position should purely be an advisory role on any racing incidents.

To be honest, i think he is right.

[mark barker]

I read elsewhere that Damon Hill was not too impressed at being asked to get involved with having to interpret the rules.

Its mad when the rules are so complicated that it takes a committee 3 hours to decide if a rule has been broken, and to expect an exdriver to be able to dig through the minefield that is the rule book is ridiculous.