Supertourer era

[craigmcally1]

I know it cost money and i know thats what they wanted to change but having been goin to knockhill since 1994 i believe that the BTCC as we know it just isnt the same. We need manufactures we need international drivers and we need the spectical that it used to be. The btcc today is awesome but it just needs to look at what it used to be and know it just aint the same. I wish it was to return to what it used to be. Btcc used to be the best when the cash was there but DTM,WTCC,V8 SUPERCARS,S2000 and so many more didnt lose there money and there still increadible, Put the money in and it will return to where it used to be and once again the BTCC will be the hardest national faught championship in the world attracting international superstar drivers again

[lukeozade0405]

I know it cost money and i know thats what they wanted to change but having been goin to knockhill since 1994 i believe that the BTCC as we know it just isnt the same. We need manufactures we need international drivers and we need the spectical that it used to be. The btcc today is awesome but it just needs to look at what it used to be and know it just aint the same. I wish it was to return to what it used to be. Btcc used to be the best when the cash was there but DTM,WTCC,V8 SUPERCARS,S2000 and so many more didnt lose there money and there still increadible, Put the money in and it will return to where it used to be and once again the BTCC will be the hardest national faught championship in the world attracting international superstar drivers again

I totally disagree!

I think the last few years have been as good as it's ever been in the BTCC. The championship organisers (Alan) work extremely hard to give us the best series in the country constantly battling against the cost side of things.

You start pumping loads of money into it (I don't know where it would come from anyway) and it will soon become a sell out series. Personally I like the way it is, with the smaller unknown drivers battling with the veterans in Plato and Neal. Do you want big names that don't have as much time for the fans. I don't.

[Stitch]

You know, this is a funny one. I do miss the old days of Winkelhock, Tarquini, Lammers, Alfa Corse, Schnitzer AC and TWR, but I think the racing now is just as good as it used to be.

I think the BTCC needs two things to get it as 'good' as it used to be, and that is all. The rest can be done on its own as the sport is already as fantastic as it used to be on so many levels.

1) Better TV Coverage. Six hours a day is great on ITV4, but I can't get ITV4. And I can't watch the races as STV don't buy the BTCC ITV package to show at night. Get it back on BBC, please. No Steve Rider, no adverts every four minutes.

2) Go back to a two-tier system. Privateers and 'production class' or whatever you want to call it. There are three just now and I can't follow at all which is which. In GT racing this wouldn't be so bad since you can tell that the slower cars are the Cup class and the ones that make noises that make you grin are NGT, but in the BTCC they're all so evenly matched it's just impossible to follow. So, everyone with two cars is production class. Everyone with one car is privateer. Done.

Martin Johnson and Hollamby and Jordan and Boardman get some respect for what they do. Glew and Smith are left languishing at the back because their sponsors won't grow up and do it properly.

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

I long for the spectacle of the SuperTourer cars and a few more high profile drivers would be great but overall I think the racing the last few years has been fantastic and it's not suffered at all.

The next couple of years could see it transform to something even better.

[simon1220]

but in the BTCC they're all so evenly matched it's just impossible to follow. So, everyone with two cars is production class. Everyone with one car is privateer. Done.

Martin Johnson and Hollamby and Jordan and Boardman get some respect for what they do. Glew and Smith are left languishing at the back because their sponsors won't grow up and do it properly.

One issue with that plan. For example, Techspeed with Sunshine.co.uk, Forster Motorsport etc. Despite running two cars, there still clearly privateers.

I follow you in believing the class system needs changing though. We need a trophy for the likes of Sunshine/Forster/Hollamby/Boardman etc to compete for. The independents trophy is dominated by the bigger teams (WSR/Airwaves), leaving these lower teams with nothing to realistically fight for, except the odd 10th place finish.

Sponsors dont have to "grow up" either, they do it how they want to, its there money after all! They could just pull out altogether and then the likes of Glew/Smith/Nash etc wouldnt get any drives at all. Not many companies can afford a full season of BTCC sponsorship, we should be grateful they put any money into our series!

[Stitch]

One issue with that plan. For example, Techspeed with Sunshine.co.uk, Forster Motorsport etc. Despite running two cars, there still clearly privateers.

I follow you in believing the class system needs changing though. We need a trophy for the likes of Sunshine/Forster/Hollamby/Boardman etc to compete for. The independents trophy is dominated by the bigger teams (WSR/Airwaves), leaving these lower teams with nothing to realistically fight for, except the odd 10th place finish.

Sponsors dont have to "grow up" either, they do it how they want to, its there money after all! They could just pull out altogether and then the likes of Glew/Smith/Nash etc wouldnt get any drives at all. Not many companies can afford a full season of BTCC sponsorship, we should be grateful they put any money into our series!

Hmmm, maybe you could split along budget lines then. *shrugs*

As for sponsors, I am incredibly grateful for sponsorship actions in motorsport. I make a point of checking out those companies first, and when doing surveys I will always put 'motorsport sponsorship' above all other things in 'why do you like/how did you discover our brand?'

They need to know that it is a valid medium for exposure, and that motorsport fans are some of the most devoted and loyal.

However, while not being a Gio fan, the fact that he was brought in for one race and then dropped because Uniq had decided sponsoring for the first race would get them the necessary exposure and then ******ing off has made me despise them. You're in it for the long haul or not at all, don't toy around! How would we feel if O'Neill only got one race or Leyland dropped out after three races and left us without Mat Jackson? It makes the series look cheaper as a whole, not just the driver, if teams and drivers are constantly coming in and out and disappearing.

The BTCC is and should be the premier tintop racing category in the UK and used to be in Europe for close, enjoyable racing. The more stuff like this happens the more people will switch to Deutsche Tourenwagen Meisterschaft or V8 Supercars in Australia, as at least then teams and drivers are a bit more concrete.

[lukeozade0405]

The general consensous is that changes are needed.

When I said I disagree in my 1st post, I didn't mean to totally disreguard the idea :D I'm just a person that doesn't handle change easily lol.

Wasn't happy with all the changes to F1 over the last few years with budget cuts and refueling but I can admit that I was wrong in that case as F1 has now turning into watching gold for me :cool:

[Mondeo2]

You know, this is a funny one. I do miss the old days of Winkelhock, Tarquini, Lammers, Alfa Corse, Schnitzer AC and TWR, but I think the racing now is just as good as it used to be.

I think the BTCC needs two things to get it as 'good' as it used to be, and that is all. The rest can be done on its own as the sport is already as fantastic as it used to be on so many levels.

1) Better TV Coverage. Six hours a day is great on ITV4, but I can't get ITV4. And I can't watch the races as STV don't buy the BTCC ITV package to show at night. Get it back on BBC, please. No Steve Rider, no adverts every four minutes.

2) Go back to a two-tier system. Privateers and 'production class' or whatever you want to call it. There are three just now and I can't follow at all which is which. In GT racing this wouldn't be so bad since you can tell that the slower cars are the Cup class and the ones that make noises that make you grin are NGT, but in the BTCC they're all so evenly matched it's just impossible to follow. So, everyone with two cars is production class. Everyone with one car is privateer. Done.

Martin Johnson and Hollamby and Jordan and Boardman get some respect for what they do. Glew and Smith are left languishing at the back because their sponsors won't grow up and do it properly.

You do realise Steve Ryder was BBC's anchor man except from the studio when the had the tv rights to the BTCC.

You've lost me saying there is a 3 tier system currently in the BTCC. Surely there is only 2 categories, Manufacturers and Independants as there always has been except when we had the Production class cars along side the super tourers to make up the numbers, Owy raced his Northern Star Peugeot and Jackson raced a Focus. Independant teams have run more than one car even in the past. Team Dynamics ran BMW's during the early 90's a pair of Mondeo's during the 90's, Rob Gravett and Mike Smith were independant team mates in Sierra RS500's, RML ran a couple of Vauxhalls for independants until they became the offficial works team.


When we had more manufacturer teams in the 90's with plenty of international drivers, the drivers were no less approachable or accessable than the drivers we have today.
For a series which is now predominantely a series full of independants and still getting alot of tv coverage it's doing very well. But I would like to see more manufacturers back in the series, more drivers will be getting paid and hopefully more drivers will be able to survive a full season or more. What driver doesn't aspire to getting a works backed drive at the end of the day.

[603270466]

I've always had thought about what the BTCC would have been like now with numerous international drivers on board. The crowds in the Super Touring era were massive, but looking at the present, its in a better shape that its been.

Granted, there's less manufacturers, less top-line international drivers, but what we do have is even better racing, brilliant TV coverage, a mix of different cars, the crop of british talent, and championshios that have been so close!!1

In the 90's, championships were won with rounds to spare, races were as and when Grandstand decided to show the highlights.

As much as i miss super touring, and the cars, i think the BTCC has done good for itself, and barrng a couple of seasons since super touring, there's always been a very healthy number of cars on the grids, and still got a great support package, and its become a lot more affordable to run a car in the series. Also racing is now a lot closer, a lot more overtaking, and the 3 race format works a treat, rather than the sprint and feature races of the super touring era/

Its easy to make comparisons between the 2, but the worlds moved on, so has the BTCC, but if am honest, i prefer it the way it is now

[BTCC2]

I know it cost money and i know thats what they wanted to change but having been goin to knockhill since 1994 i believe that the BTCC as we know it just isnt the same. We need manufactures we need international drivers and we need the spectical that it used to be. The btcc today is awesome but it just needs to look at what it used to be and know it just aint the same. I wish it was to return to what it used to be. Btcc used to be the best when the cash was there but DTM,WTCC,V8 SUPERCARS,S2000 and so many more didnt lose there money and there still increadible, Put the money in and it will return to where it used to be and once again the BTCC will be the hardest national faught championship in the world attracting international superstar drivers again

This suggestion really couldn't work in the modern day motor racing environment. Firstly where would this money come from? We are still in very delicate times from a financial point of view and sponsorship for indipendant drivers is already very difficult to come by. Do you think that increasing costs is the best way to lure manufacturers back to the series?

The main reason for a lack of manufacturer participation compared to the 90s is that many of them are no owned by the same companies, for example General Motors are unlikely to fund both a Vauxhall and a Cheverolet team. Back in the days of having 9 or 10 fully backed works teams this was not the case.

Nobody can deny that having the likes of Alfa Romeo, Renault, BMW, Honda and Nissan fielding drivers of the callibre of Menu, Biela, Aiello, Rydell, Tarquini, Winkelhock etc. wasn't good, but back then there was no World Touring Car Championship to compete in and the economy within the motor industry was much better.

With the new NGTC regulations coming in we may well see an increase in the amount of manufacturers willing to fund a team, but I don't see there ever being more than 3 or 4 again, and this isn't just unique to the BTCC, only 6 or 7 years ago the WRC had up to 8 manufacturers competing in it and now look at it. Formula 1 has lost the likes of Jaguar, Honda, Toyota and BMW all within the last few years and even the DTM and WTCC have had their numbers reduced.

I'm a passionate fan of the BTCC, and it has been my favourite sport since I was a 6 year old, i would love nothing more than to see the worlds biggest car manufacturers and best racing drivers return to the series, but we have to be realistic and move on. When the Supertouring era started at the beginning of the 90s people still spoke fondly of the Group A cars of the 80s, times change and we as fans need to change with them. Even now in 2010 I still see this as somewhat of a transitional period for the championship, we've come through the dark days of the early 2000s just after the supertouring era and the series is going forward well year upon year.

IMO the BTCC has never looked stronger.