Focus on 2011

[Mondeo2]

I see in this weeks Autosport, Mike Earle says Team Aon is evaluating a switch back to petrol for 2011. His reason being, he doesn't know what TOCA have instore regarding regulations for alternative fuels for next year so running the engines on petrol seems the logical step forward and they can make a start now. Mountune will just adapt this years lpg engines to run on petrol again, they just need to settle on which turbo they will be using as it will be the teams own NGTC engine. In the article Mike Earle also hints at the fact that as Ford do not have a lpg turbo engine in their product line up, this will bring them more in line with the manufacturer and be of more use for the future. That tells me he will be pressuring Ford for a works entry. True there are rumours Ford are supposed to be looking into entering the WTCC and they do have a 1.6 turbo engine already, but would obviously have to build cars, Arena already have cars and new NGTC regulation cars will be cheaper to build than s2000. Could we see both? Only time will tell.

[Eunos]

If it stops all the Petty Arguments and whatnot than i welcome the return to Petrol..

I think they proved at the Brands Finale last year they can be just as competitive as anyone else running on Normal fuel :cool:

[simon1220]

Good, do it, fed up of all the nonsense the Gas Power creates!

[Mondeo2]

I think they proved at the Brands Finale last year they can be just as competitive as anyone else running on Normal fuel :cool:

Which is what I've said all along, yet still the complaints have continued.

I wonder how the turbo, used by Mountune compares, to that used in the Swindon NGTC engines. Obviously there is more than one turbo manufacturer but all will make similar sizes, will all NGTC spec engines be using the same turbo or so long as they have the same restrictor size fitted can a team such as AON who have built their own NGTC engine, run a make of turbo of their own choice?
Will we see anymore teams running their own NGTC engine next year?
Will be interesting to see what Chevy will do, as they are currently testing their 1.6 turbo engine ready for next years WTCC

[Mondeo2]

Good, do it, fed up of all the nonsense the Gas Power creates!

But the engine was AON's own NGTC engine running on lpg. Lpg means a loss of power compared to petrol. If they had been running petrol, it still doesn't mean they wouldn't have needed to restrict them in fact probably more so. It's just that the TOCA NGTC engines haven't had to be restricted and the AON car has run on a different fuel that the "nonsense" as you put it, has been highlighted or blamed.

[andyconnolly]

But the engine was AON's own NGTC engine running on lpg. Lpg means a loss of power compared to petrol. If they had been running petrol, it still doesn't mean they wouldn't have needed to restrict them in fact probably more so. It's just that the TOCA NGTC engines haven't had to be restricted and the AON car has run on a different fuel that the "nonsense" as you put it, has been highlighted or blamed.

Spot on, I think the AONs have been victimised a little this season purely on the grounds of using the alternative fuel. Had they been petrol and still as quick, would love to have heard JPs reason for complaining...

[AndyMRich]

I read the same article and it does sound like Arena are hoping to get factory backing from Ford. I hope they can get works backing, but as much as I like the way the Focus looks i'm hoping Arena build an NGTC spec Mondeo and then use their own 2.0 turbo engine.

[Mondeo2]

I read the same article and it does sound like Arena are hoping to get factory backing from Ford. I hope they can get works backing, but as much as I like the way the Focus looks i'm hoping Arena build an NGTC spec Mondeo and then use their own 2.0 turbo engine.
Arena have every intention of using their own engine hopefully prepared by Mountune who have done a fantastic job with this years engine as well as last years petrol engine. Ford have provided some sponsorship and assistance so far, we just need a bit more for a full manufacturer assault. Whether it remains an independant entry or a works entry, I can see the 2.0 Duratec engine they are using at the moment makin gway for the 2.0 Ecoboost Ford are about to launch. The 2.0 Duratec engine is being discontinued anyway to be replaced by a 1.6 Ecoboost.
As to which car, that will depend on whether the new Focus, launching next year, is long enough for NGTC regs. Current Focus is 63mm too short, where as the Mondeo is over 378mm longer than the minimum required length.

[lukeozade0405]

I don't think it'll make much difference tbh, they'll still be competitive like they were last year and the team has made huge leaps and bounds in other areas of the car to help they're chances as well.

Will stop the bickering between drivers and release a bit of the pressure on the officials that feel they have to step in every time they get a complaint.

[tankman40]

I read that article aswell ....if it stops all the back biting ...bring it on ....proved they can hold there own on petral so why they changed to LPG:D

[Mondeo2]

I read that article aswell ....if it stops all the back biting ...bring it on ....proved they can hold there own on petral so why they changed to LPG:D
I see no reason why they shouldn' t be able to hold their own with the car running on petrol again. As I said before this years engine is just their own NGTC engine using lpg as a fuel. LPG loses a small amount of power compared to petrol, so using the same engine converted back to petrol and without the extra weight of an lpg fuel tank, I can still see some complaints. Problem arises next year when using the same turbo, restrictor and boost pressure as the TOCA NGTC engine if the Focus is still quicker. TOCA have designated in the regs. what restrictor and boost the engines should be running at, would it really be fair to restrict the Focus again when it is running to the regs.

[andyconnolly]

Interesting to note regarding the Focus/Mondeo argument. It does often seem weird seeing the Focus (and for that matter the SEAT and the Golf!) running around amongst the saloons. I've seen some of the Mondeos from the continent and must say, I think they'd look amazing amongst the rest of the grid...

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

Interesting times. I'd be gutted if we lost a works Ford entry to the WTCC. But then if Arena were still competitve with support then it makes both series more appealing.

I just posted in a previous thread about why BTCC weren't going 1.6 with manufacturers looking towards smaller turbo engines with road cars but Alan has answered that.

I'd be more than happy with a return to petrol but it would just make all the efforts this year seem in vain. Who knows where the car might have been with development from last year rather than total change. If it means they can be quicker with their own engine on identical spec then at least there'd be no complaining.

Mondeo's would be great but it seems logical to use the Focus with it being replaced in WRC by the Fiesta. Not sure what dimensions the new Focus will have

[Wookieboy]

I think they'll stick to the Focus rather than the Mondeo, especially when you look at the shape and size of the new 'tin top coupe' as they have called it in this article.

Take a look:

http://www.carsuk.net/new-ford-focus-2011-2012-at-detroit/

Would look stunning as an NGTC car.

[Mondeo2]

I think they'll stick to the Focus rather than the Mondeo, especially when you look at the shape and size of the new 'tin top coupe' as they have called it in this article.

Take a look:

http://www.carsuk.net/new-ford-focus-2011-2012-at-detroit/

Would look stunning as an NGTC car.

Just a few words from that article that say's it won't happen:-
"The same size as the current Focus"
The current Focus isn't long enough. So unless bigger non standard bumpers are allowed to be fitted, they can't use it.

[Wookieboy]

The hatchback is the same size as the current Focus, the coupe is longer.

[Mondeo2]

The hatchback is the same size as the current Focus, the coupe is longer.
But the regulations state:-

• 2, 3, 4 or 5 door – providing they share the same basic silhouette and dimensions as the 4/5 door saloon version

[Mondeo2]

Just read on the site that shall not be named that Aon will not be looking to run a third car at Brands this year but if they can raise the sponsorship, they would like to run 3 cars next year and being petrol fuelled, no room for cries of unfair disadvantage. ;)

[fiesta_sav]

http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=5299

mike earle on nxt year

[redshoes]

Excellent news. The sooner they enter a car that's actually built to the published regulations, the sooner we can stop all these arguments about unfair advantage

[simon1220]

Honda Racing have now confirmed that they will be moving to NGTC power next season, with Neil Brown Engineering developing there engine

[marc]

Think Aon are making a good move going back top petrol. Plato shoudl stop his whinging then, it'll be funny to see the focuses still beat the chevys! :o

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

It's a shame the LPG project hasn't worked out. Would've been good for BTCC if it had but it'll be good to have everyone on an even keel next year

[Mondeo2]

It's a shame the LPG project hasn't worked out. Would've been good for BTCC if it had but it'll be good to have everyone on an even keel next year

I think it worked out well, proved to be a good reliable engine, it's only the uncertainty of whether they'd have incurred further restrictions when they turned up at another track. I'm sure AON and Calor would have loved to have developed this further, after all alot of what is developed in motorsport gets handed down to road cars. But for the sake of being able to develop next years car and have a better idea of where they are going from day 1, without having to worry about restrictions, seems a wise and logical move. As marc says, hope Mountune can produce the goods and have people eating their words when the Focus produces the results. AS Mike Earle is quoted on another site, no-one is prepared to accept that the development of the car's chassis has alot to do with it's race pace.

[Brenneke]

Honda Racing have now confirmed that they will be moving to NGTC power next season, with Neil Brown Engineering developing there engine

Finding this odd. Didn't Steve Neal say at the start of the year the Civic couldn't run the NGTC engine? I know they are developing their own, but they could have done that for this year. Seem to remember him saying the Civic's engine bay was too small for the NGTC engine.

Obviously the speed trap figures have changed his mind.

[simon1220]

Finding this odd. Didn't Steve Neal say at the start of the year the Civic couldn't run the NGTC engine? I know they are developing their own, but they could have done that for this year. Seem to remember him saying the Civic's engine bay was too small for the NGTC engine.

Obviously the speed trap figures have changed his mind.

There was no need this year. None of their rivals were using them.

[redshoes]

Didn't Steve Neal say at the start of the year the Civic couldn't run the NGTC engine? I know they are developing their own, but they could have done that for this year. Seem to remember him saying the Civic's engine bay was too small for the NGTC engine.
He said it was too small for the TOCA NGTC engine. They are building a new Honda-based engine which obviously is a completely different block.

They couldn't have done it this year as the only NGTC engine permitted in the regs is the TOCA-badged unit. Other NGTC engines do not become legal until 2011.

[Rapid Fit Mondeo]

I think it worked out well, proved to be a good reliable engine, it's only the uncertainty of whether they'd have incurred further restrictions when they turned up at another track. I'm sure AON and Calor would have loved to have developed this further, after all alot of what is developed in motorsport gets handed down to road cars. But for the sake of being able to develop next years car and have a better idea of where they are going from day 1, without having to worry about restrictions, seems a wise and logical move. As marc says, hope Mountune can produce the goods and have people eating their words when the Focus produces the results. AS Mike Earle is quoted on another site, no-one is prepared to accept that the development of the car's chassis has alot to do with it's race pace.

I think for overall lap time that's probably true but when you see TOC outdragging Plato on the start finish straight at Silverstone, even though he went into it ahead, then that really is down to the torque of the engine and very little else