Good one Motors TV....and ITV too!

[codename_47]

Just want to say thanks for the great coverage on both channels this year (same production team though)

When I heard that Motors were going to broadcast live from the start of BTCC race one until the end of the day without a break (well, there were ads....but a significant "let the commentators and cameramen rest" type of break! ;) ) I didn't think it was possible, but It happened, and was amazing!

There's nothing better than getting a lot of refreshments, putting your feet up and settling down to about 7 hours of BTCC and support races....Lovely stuff! :p

So much so that at the start of the year the BTCC package was something to watch on Non-F1 weekends...but towards the end F1 became something to watch on non-BTCC weekends!

And of course the ITV show with all the on-boards and qualy highlights was great too! ;)

So, thanks once again, and hope to see it back in 2004! :)

[V6.]

Motors tv is great for live footage but i think the itv footage could be improved though, its good but these are the things thet me "personally" would improve.

the sound of the cars seems to be too quite with the commentators just speaking over an annoying drone

the programs are padded out to make the actual racing no longer than on bbc

in car footage is grainy and rarly used, i mean can you remember the sound of the mg in car for more than 15 seconds in the whole season. BBC used to switch between high quality in car and outcar footage to give the great flow and intensity letting you get to know the sounds of each car, letting you get to see great passing manouves from the drivers seat, and the driving habits of the car and driver.

adverts are boring, but that cant be changed

[KPC]

It's not good for the heart when it says 1130 - BTCC and they stick a program on about motorshows....

And the race review soundtrack is the most ill-fitting piece of music ever rolled out....

But other than that it's good stuff, even made me lazy.... why go stand on a corner and see cars shoot by, while missing 99% of the action when you can sit in the comfort of your favourite arm chair and see it all.... no driving across three counties before breakfast, no needing to get rid of the beer you drank half hour before mid-race. No freezing to death if you go to Brands any time of the year...

[V6.]

you can tell that footage is particually low budget and not put together by people with and ear for music (french). But is good overall

[Alan]

Originally posted by KPC
But other than that it's good stuff, even made me lazy.... why go stand on a corner and see cars shoot by, while missing 99% of the action when you can sit in the comfort of your favourite arm chair and see it all.... no driving across three counties before breakfast, no needing to get rid of the beer you drank half hour before mid-race. No freezing to death if you go to Brands any time of the year...

Well I suppose that is one disadvantage of showing the races live isn't it!! Less people show up at the circuits as they can sit at home instead of getting out there.

I wonder if anyone has ever proved there is a link between live tv coverage and people actually getting out and going to the races when it is at their local circuit.

Of course it is excellent coverage and does get it to people who can't get to the circuits.

PS Brands was ok this year - both times, but it wasn't hot this weekend!!!:(

[Peter]

I have been delighted with the coverage on Motors this year- if only they couldhave come up with this idea years ago ;) To me this proves a point that live television is always the way to go. I have also enjoyed watching the support races. I sometimes find series like Formula Renault quite difficult to follow from trackside, so a tape of the Motors action sure did come in handy :D I hear a whisper that Motors plan to show both days live next year, as DTM is likely to move to Sky Sports, allowing them to concentrate solely on BTCC.

That said, I would like ITV to change aspects such as the graphics and that intro, which do look a tad cheap and messy. I also found the camera angles and race production still do not match the standards of BHP's attempts during the days of the BBC. I do miss Charlie Cox too.

[Les]

I have loved the way I can come home and quickly find the bit I missed or that needs clarification instead of waiting a week or more.

And I love the review music.

[Amanda]

The Motors coverage has been brilliant. We have often come home from the circuits and rewound the tape to see something we missed or find out exactly what happened with a particular incident.

[KPC]

Maybe live TV does drop the attendance figures, or even increase them owing to the higher profiling... or do these things cancel each other out? Don't care myself.

At the end of the day it's down to a day out with yer mates, a burger and beer and some fine racing. It's the further away tracks that I no longer bother with, but no doubt would do if someone kicked my **** into gear.

I haven't thought much of the ITV coverage, which was supposedly so much more dedicated to the sport than the Beeb. Timeslots seem to be everywhere still. At least on Motors TV you get to see the whole race and, if you miss those, conservatively edited repeats. They get my vote... although it'll be a cold day in hell before I use Metal 5 or Opal Evasion!!

[KPC]

Originally posted by Peter
That said, I would like ITV to change aspects such as the graphics and that intro, which do look a tad cheap and messy. I also found the camera angles and race production still do not match the standards of BHP's attempts during the days of the BBC. I do miss Charlie Cox too.

Since Octogon replaced BHP the camera work has not been half as good as once it was. Remember those skirt/bumper cameras that provided a real sense of speed and close racing? The in-car footage also seems to be very scarce these days.

While most of us miss Charlie Cox and I did like John Watson. I think the commentary is very good. Tim Harvey has provided both the personality and technical knowledge to carry the thing along and Ben Edwards' knowledge of the different series is impressive.

[V6.]

Originally posted by KPC
The in-car footage

My main diasapointment with itvs footage.

Also another thing that could be improved is the way the results are documented. BBC used to use drawings of the top ten to give you a visual aid and clear points to see who is close to who. Now we are presented with a small size font of everybody who has raced, bairly giving us enough time to see who is in top 5.

[KPC]

I also nearly had kittens when, during the final round and at a really good bit of racing, the ads cut in and we all had to sit and listen to the benefits of having two ab-belts for ten quid. I suppose it's due to the perils of live scheduling but nevertheless, they pick their moments.

[VkmSpouge]

I really did enjoy the Motors TV coverage (though sometimes they did cut away from the action). It was great seeing BTCC live every time and having the awful wait to see the results appear on Ceefax. I also liked the ITV coverage too. The highlights were good quality and while they can definitely improve in some areas I found it quite enjoyable. :)

[mark]

I thought MotorsTV LIVE coverage was very good. however, i felt there was a bit too much interference on the transmission, whereas when they went to the DTM races, their onbaord shots were very clear and didn't crackle. Not sure why this is?

Have hardly seen any of the ITV coverage this year, I usually forgot to record it and as I had seen it on MotorsTv, then I wasn't to bothered. An improvement in reception quality would be better next year if they continue and possibly more camera shots.

Overall, very good!

[KPC]

Could Motors TV present a problem for terrestrial coverage? As Mark has said, and the same can be said of myself and a few I could name, that there is no need to watch the edited programme on ITV a week later. These days a good percentage of the poulation must have Sky and, although not available on NTL, i'ts possible that some cable companies do offer Motors TV in their packages. If viewing figures are not then that great on ITV, will the committment remain? Fine for those with M-TV, but what about those without?

[Peter]

Originally posted by KPC
Could Motors TV present a problem for terrestrial coverage? As Mark has said, and the same can be said of myself and a few I could name, that there is no need to watch the edited programme on ITV a week later. These days a good percentage of the poulation must have Sky and, although not available on NTL, i'ts possible that some cable companies do offer Motors TV in their packages. If viewing figures are not then that great on ITV, will the committment remain? Fine for those with M-TV, but what about those without?

I don't really think the presence of Motors TV has a particularly substantial outcome on ITV's viewing figures. The VAST majorty of ITV's viewers are merely casual viewers, who do not know about Motors TV. Motors caters much more for the die hard fans- and there are too few of such viewers to use Motors as a possible explanation for ITV viewing figures.

[KPC]

Originally posted by Peter
I don't really think the presence of Motors TV has a particularly substantial outcome on ITV's viewing figures. The VAST majorty of ITV's viewers are merely casual viewers, who do not know about Motors TV. Motors caters much more for the die hard fans- and there are too few of such viewers to use Motors as a possible explanation for ITV viewing figures.

... which could explain why the committment to scheduling is not what we were perhaps promised after it channel hopped. While the series is the premier British motorsport, it still attracts a very small percentage of the population compared to say F1. I work in an environment of some 250 people and yet only one other person I am aware of is interested in tin tops, and then only in passing. Two others are into superbikes and that's it. I have sat for many a year with my TOCA mug and wallpaper, yet no one has come up to me and said, "Oh wow...." Perhaps that says something about me? So how many of those 200 will sit and watch the Sat TV prog. How many will sit and watch a football prog or a god awful soap? If something was to come along that would bring in greater viewing figures, such as another dull football prog, ITV would axe the BTCC before you could blink.

[codename_47]

Originally posted by Peter
I hear a whisper that Motors plan to show both days live next year, as DTM is likely to move to Sky Sports, allowing them to concentrate solely on BTCC.


I too have heard a similar whisper....whether it turns out to be true or not we'll have to wait until next year to find out I suppose...but I'm curious...where did you hear of it? :confused:

And on the Tv VS Attending the track argument....seeing all the support race action as well as the BTCC races showed me that if you go to a track, you're going to get a pretty fully programme, so that convinced me to get off my sofa and get down to Donington this year.....you get a lot of action at the Old Harpin! ;)

After watching the race live, it IS worth watching the ITV show, if only for the onboards and extra replays they are able to chuck in after having the benifit of adding the extra film only cameras to the mix.....for example, The Peuguot crashing off at thruxton was missed due to the perils of live broadcasting on Motors, yet it was there for all to see on ITV! :)

[tvgod]

Originally posted by Peter
I don't really think the presence of Motors TV has a particularly substantial outcome on ITV's viewing figures. The VAST majorty of ITV's viewers are merely casual viewers, who do not know about Motors TV. Motors caters much more for the die hard fans- and there are too few of such viewers to use Motors as a possible explanation for ITV viewing figures.

I disagree - Touring Cars' core support is probably between 100,000 and 200,000 people, which is between 8 and 15% of the ITV audience.

This year, ITV's audience for Touring Cars appears to be around 10% lower than it was last season - there is no other explanation for that other than the Motors coverage.

Without Motors, you'd actually expect the ITV figures to be higer this year because:

1. people have had more time to get used to it being on ITV.
2. the racing has been better.
3. there haven't been as many occasions where it was on at a different time in Scotland/wasn't shown at all in Scotland.

[codename_47]

Originally posted by tvgod
I disagree - Touring Cars' core support is probably between 100,000 and 200,000 people, which is between 8 and 15% of the ITV audience.

This year, ITV's audience for Touring Cars appears to be around 10% lower than it was last season - there is no other explanation for that other than the Motors coverage.

Without Motors, you'd actually expect the ITV figures to be higer this year because:

1. people have had more time to get used to it being on ITV.
2. the racing has been better.
3. there haven't been as many occasions where it was on at a different time in Scotland/wasn't shown at all in Scotland.

So you're saying that they should cancel the Motors coverage then, for the good of ITV :rolleyes:

I think that the production team are aware of this, since it is the same team after all, no matter what the channel!;)

[tvgod]

Originally posted by codename_47
So you're saying that they should cancel the Motors coverage then, for the good of ITV :rolleyes:


Not at all, but you have to wonder whether ITV will stay committed to the championship now that they've lost exclusivity, and are losing viewers.

[Peter]

I am not too worried by that. In general, television viewing figures for most sports are declining.

One thig I would like to see is more BTCC promotion in their GP coverage, afterall Grim Rosenthal is always trailing football matches and even communicated live with football insiders at other sports venues.

[Peter]

Originally posted by tvgod
Not at all, but you have to wonder whether ITV will stay committed to the championship now that they've lost exclusivity, and are losing viewers.

It was Granada's decision to do the Motors coverage though.

[Bill]

And don't ITV get paid to show the coverage? it's not like they do it out of the goodness of their heart.

[KPC]

Maybe Granada are gearing up to show the coverage exclusively on Motors TV? May be cheaper for them? Remember, the BBC dropped the series as it wasn't worth their while - although BBC decisions are madness anyway... couldn't organise a pee up in a brewery that lot. If the viewing figures continue to drop, the time slots will possibly differ widely to accommodate primetime slots for wider audiences before we see the series up for grabs again. As I recall, none of the companies were that fussed with it, Channel 4 were not interested. If it's not picked up maybe M-TV can show it cheaply on their little channel? But I must admit I don't know about these things to any great degree.... just basing my thoughts on similar antics I've experienced over the years. Maybe Granada have a masterplan or maybe not... we'll see what we see.

[Peter]

Originally posted by KPC
Maybe Granada are gearing up to show the coverage exclusively on Motors TV? May be cheaper for them? Remember, the BBC dropped the series as it wasn't worth their while - although BBC decisions are madness anyway... couldn't organise a pee up in a brewery that lot. If the viewing figures continue to drop, the time slots will possibly differ widely to accommodate primetime slots for wider audiences before we see the series up for grabs again. As I recall, none of the companies were that fussed with it, Channel 4 were not interested. If it's not picked up maybe M-TV can show it cheaply on their little channel? But I must admit I don't know about these things to any great degree.... just basing my thoughts on similar antics I've experienced over the years. Maybe Granada have a masterplan or maybe not... we'll see what we see.

No, an exclusive move to Motors will NEVER happen. ITV is by far the main channel- the Motors coverage is merely a tribute to the fans. By the way, Granada are paid by the BTCC to produce the coverage, so they are in no position to move the series away from terrestrial.

I must also correct you in your comment about the Beeb dropping the series- that is simply not true. TOCA decided not to renew the contract when it ran out, as they were unhappy with the scheduling.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Bill
And don't ITV get paid to show the coverage? it's not like they do it out of the goodness of their heart.

That is correct.

[Peter]

Originally posted by codename_47
I too have heard a similar whisper....whether it turns out to be true or not we'll have to wait until next year to find out I suppose...but I'm curious...where did you hear of it? :confused:


It was up on the official DTM web site in their Zandvoort. However, it was incorrect, as it implied that Sky were covering Zandvoort and Hockenheim, in addition to the 2004 season. Well I didn't see any Sky coverage of those last 2 races!

I do however think the 2004 season will be shown on Sky Sports, as apparently the DTM are unhappy with the way the BTCC was always given priority when races clashed.

[KPC]

Originally posted by Peter
No, an exclusive move to Motors will NEVER happen. ITV is by far the main channel- the Motors coverage is merely a tribute to the fans. By the way, Granada are paid by the BTCC to produce the coverage, so they are in no position to move the series away from terrestrial.

I must also correct you in your comment about the Beeb dropping the series- that is simply not true. TOCA decided not to renew the contract when it ran out, as they were unhappy with the scheduling.

But the Beeb did drop the show. TOCA gave them every oportunity to play ball and provide a dedicated time-slot. The wrangling went on for some time. As I mentioned, Channel 4 were not interested and TOCAs options at one point were not looking to good. Maybe had the show not been picked up by the an independant company the BBC would have continued to run the series by their own standards. But ultimately, the BBC didn't want to play ball and so TOCA shopped elsewhere and got lucky.... ergo the BBC dropped it rather than keep it. They obviously thought it not that important in the ratings war, for which you would have to concur.

To take your first point my friend, NEVER say NEVER. TOCA may well pay Granada to produce and air the show, but with the lack of money available these days, how long will they be able to afford to do so. Perhaps this is one reason why we had the champ cars and tickets at treble the price at Brands this year? To buy time on a major UK terrestrial channel costs more money per hopur than many of us will probably earn in a lifetime. If tintops are losing ratings for Granada in favour of footbal, horse racing or whatever, they are also losing money and would replace the show in favour of a better money-spinner. This is what the time-slot chopping changing malarky was all about with the BBC, touring cars was a minor attraction but not one to get in the way of their heavier sports programming.

Motors TV do not put the show on as a tribute to the fans... big business do not care about the little man. As someone said in an earlier reply, they do not do for the love of it. Motors TV, like many satellite and cable channels, are desperate to fill their schedules. They soak programmes up like spunges. Why else is the BTCC repeated so often. As the channel becomes bigger the rights to broadcast more series will probably be purchased and we'll just see the BTCC once, possible with a highlight show later in the week depending on scheduling space.

I would love the show to continue in both mediums, but there is a thing called the real world. Wonder why Sky never picked it up, eh?

[codename_47]

Originally posted by Peter
It was up on the official DTM web site in their Zandvoort. However, it was incorrect, as it implied that Sky were covering Zandvoort and Hockenheim, in addition to the 2004 season. Well I didn't see any Sky coverage of those last 2 races!

I do however think the 2004 season will be shown on Sky Sports, as apparently the DTM are unhappy with the way the BTCC was always given priority when races clashed.

Well, they ARE showing DTM this year....just not live, it's on their World Motorsport programme.

Hmmmmmmm.......

[KPC]

I think I've said my piece on this thread, but before I go I'd say one final thing on TV dedication....

As discussed in the DVD thread, in 2001 the first half or so of the programme was not aired, only the feature race, as Wimbledon was on. If memory serves it had even been rained off but rather than show the BTCC there was studio chat, with the usual idiot kids making faces in the background. Okay, this was still BBC days you may argue Peter, but my point is that Wimbledon attracts a bigger audience and the BTCC suffers for it. I truly wish it was the other way round, but there you go!!

[tvgod]

Originally posted by KPC
But the Beeb did drop the show. TOCA gave them every oportunity to play ball and provide a dedicated time-slot. The wrangling went on for some time.


With the BBC it wasn't just not having a dedicated timeslot - it was more the case of not knowing whether the races would be shown one week later, two weeks later or not at all...and then whether they would be shown in BBC1 or BBC2, and not knowing whether it would be Saturday or Sunday.




As I mentioned, Channel 4 were not interested and TOCAs options at one point were not looking to good.


According to Autosport, Channel 4 were very interested. However a major works team said they wouldn't take part if the series wasn't on BBC1 or ITV.



Maybe had the show not been picked up by the an independant company the BBC would have continued to run the series by their own standards.


Touring Cars has always been made by an independent company - first BHP, then Octagon, now Granada.

Maybe it was Octagon's insistance that they should make the programme (as well as run the championship, half of the circuits and the TOCA marketing) that was the problem...




To take your first point my friend, NEVER say NEVER. TOCA may well pay Granada to produce and air the show, but with the lack of money available these days, how long will they be able to afford to do so.


As long as companies like Green Flag see value in, what is in effect, free advertising on ITV, they will continue to fund the programme.



Perhaps this is one reason why we had the champ cars and tickets at treble the price at Brands this year?


No, that's more to do with Octagon's massive losses, which have forced them to put five circuits on the market and not spend any money on marketing.



To buy time on a major UK terrestrial channel costs more money per hopur than many of us will probably earn in a lifetime.


...but why is that relevant? It's not as if Green Flag are buying 50 minutes at the same rate that Procter and Gamble pay for a 30 second spot in the middle.
Green Flag are probably contributing no more than the production costs of the programme - although I can see that that could well be in excess of a million pounds.



Motors TV do not put the show on as a tribute to the fans... big business do not care about the little man. As someone said in an earlier reply, they do not do for the love of it. Motors TV, like many satellite and cable channels, are desperate to fill their schedules. They soak programmes up like spunges. Why else is the BTCC repeated so often. As the channel becomes bigger the rights to broadcast more series will probably be purchased and we'll just see the BTCC once, possible with a highlight show later in the week depending on scheduling space.


Motors TV is hardly big business, compared with someone like Sky, or Eurosport.
It's run by a retired advertising executive with a passion for motorsport, who decided that rather than grow old in Monte carlo, watching the taxman eat away at his fortune, he'd spend it sharing his hobby with the rest of Europe.



Wonder why Sky never picked it up, eh?

Sky has never got to grips with motorsport in the way the have with "ball sports". That may change in the future, but for the moment, while others innovate, like Motors with their live TOCA Tour, Sky are picking up what's left.

[codename_47]

Originally posted by tvgod
Sky has never got to grips with motorsport in the way the have with "ball sports". [/B]

True enough....I think the Flop of Bernie's F1 channel in the UK had more to do with Sky's pricing than any so called lack of demand....

And I'm really glad Channel 4 didn't get the BTCC deal.....otherwise it would've been shoved to the 7am slot like ASCAR and F3 and all the other Motorsport they show "interest" in......if there was any others :D

[KPC]

Originally posted by tvgod


With the BBC it wasn't just not having a dedicated timeslot - it was more the case of not knowing whether the races would be shown one week later, two weeks later or not at all...and then whether they would be shown in BBC1 or BBC2, and not knowing whether it would be Saturday or Sunday.

According to Autosport, Channel 4 were very interested. However a major works team said they wouldn't take part if the series wasn't on BBC1 or ITV.

Touring Cars has always been made by an independent company - first BHP, then Octagon, now Granada.

Maybe it was Octagon's insistance that they should make the programme (as well as run the championship, half of the circuits and the TOCA marketing) that was the problem...

As long as companies like Green Flag see value in, what is in effect, free advertising on ITV, they will continue to fund the programme.

No, that's more to do with Octagon's massive losses, which have forced them to put five circuits on the market and not spend any money on marketing.

...but why is that relevant? It's not as if Green Flag are buying 50 minutes at the same rate that Procter and Gamble pay for a 30 second spot in the middle.
Green Flag are probably contributing no more than the production costs of the programme - although I can see that that could well be in excess of a million pounds.

Motors TV is hardly big business, compared with someone like Sky, or Eurosport.
It's run by a retired advertising executive with a passion for motorsport, who decided that rather than grow old in Monte carlo, watching the taxman eat away at his fortune, he'd spend it sharing his hobby with the rest of Europe.

Sky has never got to grips with motorsport in the way the have with "ball sports". That may change in the future, but for the moment, while others innovate, like Motors with their live TOCA Tour, Sky are picking up what's left. [/B]

By "picked up by an independant company" I did mean and ITV network as opposed to the BBC.

The series has had it's fair share of sponors, the AA not lasting long and Auto Trader a fair while. Green Flag won't be the last. At the end of the day it I suppose it hinges on how well their proto-adverts do in their slots or, like the manufacturers, will they still have the need for them when marketing figures are achieved?

Call me a cynic, but I can't see Motor TV being run for the fun of it.

As for Channel 4... Are any one team that influential that TOCA would rule C4 out in favour of that teams inclusion in the series? Afterall, the year after the team could be off anyway. Considering the state of the series at the time though I suppose TOCA could not afford to lose a team. Umm?

As for Sky not picking the series up, this was my point. Ball games pay the bills.

Anyway, I know I may have sounded all doom and gloom but I am just throwing a few if and buts in here. With Granada's coverage giving the show second timeslots to the football programming I just felt that it was following the BBC line slowly but surely.